Foresail size 110 or 135?

[John rolka]

I have a catalina 30 tall rig, this last winter i added a bow sprit and bought a doyle ups, which is tricky but is working. The boat came with a ratty laminate sail ive only used a couple times, i think its probably around a 135. I had what was probably a 135-150 from my previous boat a catalina 27 standard rig, and i also bought a used big 155. The sail that was working best was the sail from the 27 but it is getting so worn i think too much trouble to fix. I have been using the big 155 for the last couple weeks and am very dissatisfied, i think im going to buy a new sail, i know i want a smaller sail and im wondering how small i want to go. 110 or 135. I dont know the dimensions of my small sail and its % it was also cut for a different boat ill measure that. Ill drag my ratty laminate out which should give me some input on that size but im curious what others experiences are what people like. I cruise, not a racer, i sail in all conditions from may to december in Western long island sound. The wind is poor in the summer, for light wind i have the UPS. Wiinter and fall are windier and i dont hesitate to sail then. With the tall rig i have plenty of sail area... Like i mentioned the much smaller sail was working well for me. Any thoughts 110 or 135?

Thanks
John Rolka

 

[mortyd]

i too am on city island and spoke with gerry douglas when i replaced my genoa. he suggested a 155 for us sailors who sail on the 'dead sea' and i am happy with it.

 

[Sanfelice]

I would go at a minimum a 135. You can't really guess at how your boat reacts with an old blown out sail. If your wind velocity is routinely on the low side, I would go with a 150. Talk to your sail maker telling him how you sail and at what wind speeds. He will advise you as to what would be the appropriate size.

 

[mortyd]

and you figure your local sailmaker knows the boat better than gerry douglas?

 

[Stu Jackson]

A very illuminating and interesting discussion on co.com for those of you who might be in the market for a new jib.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=155362

Please read all three pages. Enjoy.

 

[mortyd]

stu, if we're talkling furlers, i believe an imperfectly furled big sail, in big wind. and a well set large sail in light wind beats a well set smaller sail big wind, and a smaller sail doing little in light wind. if we're talking changing sails i have no opinion.

 

[mortyd]

and, if we're talking city island, light wind rules.

 

[John rolka]

Thanks for the comments. that article was interesting, seemed to orient towards the smaller sail. Which is inline with my thoughts. My problem is the 150 of 6 oz material will not fill in light wind, and with rough seas will collapse and easily distort. For the light wind conditions I have the UPS which is much lighter fabric and will easily fill. I have the ups on a continuous line furler. The smaller sail will point beteter in light wind, fills more easily and the slot thing, backwinding the main. I'm trending towrds the smaller than 135 sail as the UPS is there. The only thing it really won't to is point tightly. I have spoken to Doyle on CI for about this and they tend toward the smaller head sails with the UPS as I have. The question is just how small to go... Thanks again. John Rolka

 

[jimg]

I would also like to add that you don't need to measure the sail. Every sailmaker out there has the dimensions for a Cat 30, tall or short. They are available as "in stock" sails from any number of places.

 

[mortyd]

if you already have a light wind sail, listen to paul and mark. tell them morty says hello. by the way, where and when do you find big wind in the summer?

 

[John rolka]

With the tall rig, I have plenty of sail to move the boat, Paul was recommending nothing bigger than the 135, I was wondering if I wanted to go smaller. This summer has been great, Last weekend I beat back 25 miles from Greenwich with the floppy sail tightly rolled. Where do you keep your boat on CI?
Regards, JR

 

[John rolka]

Again the light wind I use the UPS for everything but pointing, to point smaller foresail works well. In stronger wind I have the smaller sail....

 

[Jackdaw]

Again the light wind I use the UPS for everything but pointing, to point smaller foresail works well. In stronger wind I have the smaller sail....

bingo.

 

[mortyd]

the harlem, slong with paul. and you? i kept her at consolidated one summer and learned many lessons why a moooring is better than a slip. my boat is 5961, the third made with an oen stern. come by and have paul buy you a beer or six.

 

[John rolka]

At the Harlem, and Consolidated, I bought this boat at Consolidated, were you hauled out there last winter? Cat 30 with an open transom, I think I know it was at the southeast corner of the yard. by that house by the dock. I was there last winter, I think about 3 or 4 boats from you. I'm at the IBC, this is my 4th year now. We're neighbors, I'm talking to Paul now about this sail. See you round.

John ROlka

 

[mortyd]

yup, tnat was me. wes puts me there because, due to my open stern, i can climb right up the swim ladder on the hard. what's the ibc?

 

[jrowan]

Not familiar with a "UPS" sail, but I have a UK 150 Genoa with a higher cut foot & padded luff to allow for good shape when partially furled in higher winds. It works well as an all around cruising sail. Bigger sails are always better in light air, as we also get here in the Souther Cheasapeake bay in the summer. You can always furl a little bit of sail in high winds, but you can't add more sail to one that too small in light winds. But it sounds like your alredy set on a smaller sail. Just remember that the C 30 was designed as a 70's era preference of a mast head rig wth larger foresail & smaller main, as was more popular back in the day. Sail makers are used to more modern fractional rigs of todays designs, that favor small jibs & big mainsails. This doesn't work well to drive the already heavy C 30. I have a big jib, but if she's cut right then she will be easier to handle.
ps. to Morty: How do you manage to get Gerry Douglas, the head designer of Catalina Yachts on the horne? I though he was kinda busy running a company these days. It always amazes me that they have the time to bother with us & our 30+ year old boats. But I guess that's what keeps them in business, good customer service!

 

[weinie]

Less than 5 knots last night in manhasset bay. I was on a j105 with class jib (about 110% I think). We got blown away by two other j105s with 150s on the upwind leg...not so much downwind, though with the small jib poled out with the pole extended for a 150 sail. No doubt it was running the small jib upwind that cost us the race. (We had already clinched first place in the series and were going to run a spinnaker in a non spin race just for kicks so we used the small headsail rather than the big genoa)

Make

 

[mortyd]

weinie, both frank butler and gerry douglas answer their phones or return messages. a reason i will probably remain a catalina fan, but i met gerry at a boat show and he invited me to call. i too have no idea what a ups is, unless it's brown and rolls.