ForeDeck Windows step on capacity, No Step On?

[Qomomoko]

Hello

I went to look at a HL37 1987 yesterday.
As usual, the add looks better than the boat in person but it was not that far off.
My girlfriend came with me and noticed the hi humidity inside the boat right away; she told me after we saw the boat.
The broker mentioned a leak or 2.

The big question I have is:
That the owner replaced the foreDeck sealed windows because they were leaking.
He said he could not go EOM because the boat was old and was FLEXED and so EOM would not fit.
He then had a carpenter make custom windows where the frame is of wood.
He also labeled the area around the windows with "No Step".
I asked the broker about the NO STEP as I would certainly be stepping on them or the crew when folding the sail on the boom, putting the cover on the main sail etc etc.
He said that is what the LAZY JACKS are for. Anyhow, I did not argue.

Am I mistaken or is this an oversight on the carpenter/ owner to not have better foredeck windows you can step on?
They lay flat around the MAST almost horizontally.
Also the wood frame looks out out of place as the rest of the deck is white and no wood trim. The Port/window hatch border are black/plastic.

I almost did not notice because they are covered nicely.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I don’t love the idea of the boat having flexed the the point where original equipment windows wouldn’t fit anymore. I’d wonder if leaks around the original windows let the core rot and sag. So those would definitely be areas I’d want a surveyor to check if you move forward.

As you said it would be better to be able to step in those areas when you’re working on the main or just going forward and aft on the deck for docking. But I don’t know if the original glass would’ve been safe for a step or if that was just a design limitation to begin with. Others with Hunters of that size and era may be able to say more about that.

 

[Alan Gomes]

He said that is what the LAZY JACKS are for.

Idiotic.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I think Alan summarized it quite eloquently. Using wood as a window frame - Irwin tried that years ago which failed miserably. Some unknown carpenter likely won’t have any better chance.

Find a better maintained boat! And a better broker.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

The broker is overloaded with and has a limited knowledge of sailboats. Replacement of hatch lights is a common procedure and are NOT replaced using wooden frames. We've seen a lot of discussion of this topic here and that is the most likely to fail repair job attempt I've seen to date. Listen to your girlfriend as she's seen what lies ahead with the humidity. Mold, mold, and more mold in hidden spaces which you haven't yet seen.

Am I mistaken or is this an oversight on the carpenter/ owner to not have better foredeck windows you can step on?

I asked the broker about the NO STEP as I would certainly be stepping on them or the crew when folding the sail on the boom, putting the cover on the main sail etc etc.

You NEVER step on the hatch lights or the hatches of a sailboat. If you do, good luck with any boat you should ever own. Stepping on them guarantees leakage in very short order. Sort of like what you're looking at now.

My advice is to RUN, not walk away from this boat. It has been destroyed by the previous owner and the broker is covering up. Buying it will ensure your spending endless dollars to keep it afloat.

Imagine what shape the engine must be in or have you not looked at it yet ?

 

[ggrizzard]

Run, don't walk away!

 

[kappykaplan]

My advice is to RUN, not walk away from this boat

Run, don't walk away!

 

[jssailem]

He said that is what the LAZY JACKS are for.

That is a deflection non answer.

SURVEY the boat if this is your dream boat. If not continue your search. There are lots of boats available in Florida. Some have been bought to flip after being storm damaged.

The story of the boat sure implies that there has been water damage near the ports in the bow. I would avoid any boats that have water damage in the deck. That is a non starter for me.

 

[Qomomoko]

Thank guys..
Not in love with the boat but the listing was promising... jajaja
first boat my GF sees with me ... bad experience for her.

Will keep looking and TRY to no Fall in love..

Makes sense that I do not want to step on fix port windows.. I will certainly look for decks with NO PORT lights near the Mast lol.. what a bad design IMO even with OEM port lights.

 

[Qomomoko]

On another similar note....

How do you guys feel about my current approach at buying a used sailboat from the 1980's; and I will preface with that I am a NOOB..

I am looking to spend $30-$40k for a Sailable, motorable sailboat whose interior has MINIMUM leaks.
I am ok with a $20k boat which will need $10 -$15 k in next 5 years but is still sailable and motorable.
I am walking away from any boat whose owner /yacht broker can not tell me the age/inspection of their STANDING RIGGING.

There was an O'day 35 1987 that was offered to me at $17,500 but the 2 lower shrouds in the front (the swagelock) had cracks, the interior looked great but was little by little breaking (the cabin table hinges came off in the 1 months I had gone to check it out at different times), the bilge has thick oil in it though the engine LOOKED GREAT; and I choose to walk away even though I had at one point been in love with it.

There is a Cal 39 whose owner has spent close to $20k, is/was in love with it but I think he did not realize how much $$ it would take. He got it for $37k and is selling for $27k.

The issue I have with the CAL is that yacht broker says / does the following.

-told me that any boat has soft spots, to not worry to much about it.
-showed me the survey, which said "replace a shroud and chain plate and get inspections"; and I have asked him 2X about the inspection results and nothing but silence.
-He kept asking me to make an offer.. kept asking me and I told him I was not ready, I knew to little but that I will buy a boat, just need time; I told him such from the get go.. After 2nd visit and the non standing rigging info I offered $15k, he said " how insulting.. ..." and I responded, I know little and I believe I will replace the whole standing rigging due to not knowing its history; he has not liked me much since.
-he then said my boat is the O'day 35 I mentioned above who is listed for $25k, the owner said to me $17.5k via text. I said thank you so much but I need to be more knowledgably before commitment. He, owner, said no problem and hoped I find my boat.

I did my own look at the STANDING RIGGING of the CAl and saw no cracks on the swagelock but I know very little.

I will continue to see sailboats and hope I deal with the owners and not yacht brokers.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

You learned your first and most important lesson - never trust a broker.

 

[Qomomoko]

You learned your first and most important lesson - never trust a broker.

Not that I am a young man, but I was expecting more from "sailing" brokers; naïve of me.
They probably benefit of the people who know little about sailing and dont know they dont know about sailing lol; covid probably brought on a ton of new people to sailing.

 

[jssailem]

I own a 1974Cal35C. The boat has a strong hull. I assume on all mature boats will require all standing rigging and most likely running rigging. They used Barient or Barlow winches. Good winches but need to be cleaned. They are likely not self tailing. If so it is a bonus. Rigging is at the mast. Mast is strong. Electrical will need to be updated. Likely plumbing as well the last two items are labor sensitive but not gravelly expensive. The rigging and mast refit was 11K by a professional rigger.

Any specific queries let me know.

Order your own survey not the brokers. If you like the boat make an offer contingent on your clean survey and sea trial. Failed contingencies means

• Revised offer negotiation
• Or you choose to walk away and recover your deposit

Your costs is the survey.

 

[Qomomoko]

I own a 1974Cal35C. The boat has a strong hull. I assume on all mature boats will require all standing rigging and most likely running rigging. They used Barient or Barlow winches. Good winches but need to be cleaned. They are likely not self tailing. If so it is a bonus. Rigging is at the mast. Mast is strong. Electrical will need to be updated. Likely plumbing as well the last two items are labor sensitive but not gravelly expensive. The rigging and mast refit was 11K by a professional rigger.

Any specific queries let me know.

Order your own survey not the brokers. If you like the boat make an offer contingent on your clean survey and sea trial. Failed contingencies means

• Revised offer negotiation
• Or you choose to walk away and recover your deposit

Your costs is the survey.

Thanks, I surely will.


The owner of the CAL just texted me that a boat got loose of a mooring and "hit" his roller furling.
That he will take of $2k of the $27k.
Sucks, hope no other damage was done, but do feel bad for the owner.

I dont know the details of what type of damage it has.

 

[jssailem]

A good furler would be in the range $2500-3000. Damage could extend to the forestay- the base, on the mast or both.

 

[BigEasy]

You NEVER step on the hatch lights or the hatches of a sailboat. If you do, good luck with any boat you should ever own. Stepping on them guarantees leakage in very short order.

Couldn't agree more; stepping on acrylic deck lens and acrylic hatches is a sure fire way of causing them to leak prematurely.
Not crazy about using wood frames to replace broken or crazed acrylic lens; the preferred method is to use the old lens as a template and use cast acrylic to fabricate new ones. Adhere with 3M VHB double sided tape & seal with Dow 795 sealant.

 

[Tally Ho]

My general approach is to learn all I can about boats, and pre-inspect boats I am interested in. If it seems like a boat I want to own, then and only then do I consider a surveyor. I hired a surveyor for my first purchase. I hired a surveyor to do a quick and focused survey below the water line on my second boat (seller also provided me a copy of a 1-year old survey). Both of my boats were under $25K. If it were a more expensive purchase, a survey would have been more critical.

A mid-80’s boat is 35 years old, so you have to expect some things to be broken, worn out and ready for replacement. Don’t let the minor stuff (a cracked shroud toggle, etc.). An engine is way more expensive to replace. Focus on the important stuff.

I may be biased, but I think she looks ok a 35-year old girl…

Have fun on your search!


Greg

 

[dlochner]

He said that is what the LAZY JACKS are for. Anyhow, I did not argue.

Not sure it is idiotic, but it is not what you say to a prospective customer.

If you have a good set of lazy jacks or a dutchman or a stack pack flaking the main and storing it is pretty easy.

Nonetheless the boat is a poorly maintained boat by a poorly informed owner being sold by an ill spoken broker.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

As a sailboat dealer with several locations, I hired only sailors who knew sailboats. Part of the hiring process, I required them to visit three used car dealerships and tell me what they liked or not liked. The not likes piled up quickly. If a broker or owner refuses to give you any information such as survey results, walk away. If the broker or owner does not know the answer but is willing to find out the information and call you back, then I would have confidence in him.

During inspection you find every locker is clean and orderly particularly the engine compartment tells you a whole lot about the owner and/or broker. Any used sailboats on my lot whether they were owned by me or brokerage, were fixed and cleaned. Used boats did not stay long at my dealership