Fore-deck Fun

Jul 13, 2015
900
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
Time to fix the fore-deck before the rigging parts show up-- was always on the list, but now that I'll have upgraded stays and eye-bolts all round I wanted the stem fitting to stay put as well. I've been staring at the original pic of the underside of the fore-deck for a while contemplating the how and thought I would share:

Here's the original-- first challenge was trying to decide how to increase the overall structure-- definitely going to add the stem fitting support and tie it to the back end of the bow eye-- but that in and of itself doesn't solve the overall problem. In addition to the inherent weakness well documented -- the deck cleats rocked with ease and were leaking at best if not destined to leave at the first good pull:

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Fast forward multiple hours later and as usual 1/3 of the bolts came off with proper tools, 1/3 came off with brute force and creative use of slightly different tools, and yes the last 1/3 succumbed to death by dremel:

Took the time here to open up the checking cracks and see what the substrate condition was-- I had originally thought this was a bad piece of wood that would have to be ground or chipped away from the blob of glass at the peak. Was pleasantly happy to find solid thumps and no rot.

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Had some fun here:

Dotted Teal line: is the furthest extent of the actual decking-- not just an add on piece as I was fearing. Good to know, but another problem:

Red outline is the deck cleats-- attached to almost nothing but the thin shell-- and the backing plates notoriously useless
Orange denotes where the bow light had two small through bolts and the wire feed
Purple are the foreward legs of the bow rail
Green for the Stem Fitting
and the Pink Blob is a smattering of glass which is the only saving grace for the forestay
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The plan is to overlay with a complete marine ply skin-- penetrating epoxied of course. Before it goes down the surface between the skin and the deck will be leveled in low density filler -- bonded flush with the ply with High Density filler. Dry fit as you see it and the outline gaps will receive a further flush coat of low density filler to smooth out that radius edge. Last will come some strips of biaxial glass to tie it together and a last coat of glass to seal it all up. All the holes overdrilled and filled, give the cleats some solid backing, add the stem fitting reinforcement for insurance and I think that will do it.

Let the upside down epoxy commence

InkedIMG_2272_LI.jpg
 
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AaronD

.
Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
All I can say is I feel your pain. Good luck on that project, and (unlike me), you made the wise choice to tackle it before the thermometer hits 90 degrees.

One thought: if it's on your wish list, now might be a good time to move the bow nav lights up onto the pulpit and route the wiring through the pulpit tube.
 
Apr 13, 2016
29
Catalina 22 Fort Worth
Let us know if you have a secret to doing epoxy work upside down. I wanted to go in from underneath on the foredeck recore I’m doing but didn’t want to flip the boat and couldn’t see doing that large an area fighting gravity the whole time.
 
Jul 13, 2015
900
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
Will definitely attempt to get some pics-- primary strategy is an excessive use of filler to butter up the epoxy. It's going to drip-- but if I go heavy and fast and follow on quickly with the ply we should be good (minus whatever lands on my head). I had some decent success overhead with my keel hanger bracket molds-- similar concept (albeit with more room to duck)

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Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Yup, you should be fine if you plan it in advance and put down plastic tarps to protect the rest of the boat.

I've worked "upside down" to replace rotted core, with reasonable success. After wetting out the prepared substrate surface with clear epoxy, butter up the core with epoxy thickened to the consistency of peanut butter. It won't drip much after the initial push into place. I'd use either fumed silica or micro fibers for thickening.

I typically use slow hardener and work during a cool time, not when it's really hot. I prefer having a long open time to fix any errors or to clean up the edges. I use a toothed trowel to apply the thickened epoxy, so I get a nice uniform layer between the core and the skin, without having too much excess resin squeezing out every where.

 

Johnb

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Jan 22, 2008
1,421
Hunter 37-cutter Richmond CA
I would consider using G10 rather than plywood for the overlay.
 
Jul 13, 2015
900
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
I think the hard part is done-- and I'm quite pleased that it's likely I'll never have to sand or epoxy in the hole again-- literally has to be the worst place in the boat to work on.

Looks like a bad B horror flick-- but spread 407 liberally and heavy to take the first pass at leveling the gaps between the deck and the outer edge of the shell: as @DrJudyB noted-- plastic is your friend. A few sags as expected-- but not much to knock down.

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Sanded up and a good (enough) flat surface to bond to:

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couple of coats of my remaining penetrating epoxy for grins-- both sides will get coated liberally in unthickened and thickened epoxy along the way.

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Humor as usual-- all good planning goes in the crapper-- here is my test fit for putting some pressure on the backer as it will be bonding to the underside of the deck.

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And god only knows what I changed once I had a pot full of epoxy in my hand--- but we adapt.

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Before I slammed up the plywood backer I laid up another coat of 404 High Density filler to fill in the remaining low spots-- trying to give myself a good buttery mix for the ply to bond with. Once it was kicked enough to stay put I added a fillet again in 404 all the way round trying to round up the joint edge in preparation for fiberglass. Two wet out sessions later you can see the tab of biaxial between the hull an the deck-- the 12oz cloth covers the entirety of the space-- but bleeds out clear. Nice hanging thread to ruin my pic :)


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Last bit of humor: all this mayhem started with a wobbly deck cleat-- and will end with new standing rigging. Not so nice backing material--

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Oct 19, 2017
7,744
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Last bit of humor: all this mayhem started with a wobbly deck cleat-
Ha, I ended up replacing 3/4s of my plumbing because of one leaky faucet. Every time I turned off a down stream valve, that valve started leaking until I decided I needed to replace all my old gate valves with ball valves, and hey, while I was at it, that Pex is cheap and easy to work with, there should be more individual shutoff valves and if I make the hot and cold lines different colors, Life will be better.

Great project, pclarksurf.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
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AaronD

.
Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
Last bit of humor: all this mayhem started with a wobbly deck cleat-- and will end with new standing rigging.
I hear your pain... Mine started with the bow pulpit, when my perceptive wife said, "That's not supposed to move, is it?"

Nice work! You managed this repair much quicker than I did.

When it's time for rigging, will you use the CD kit, or are you going to buy some heat-shrink dyneema and splice yourself a high-tech rig? FWIW - I looked at both; I needed new (open body) turnbuckles, the prices I found for those were a significant fraction of the CD kit price. So synthetic was going to be considerably more expensive. But next time (now that I have good turnbuckles), I might try the lighter and kink-free solution.
 
Jul 13, 2015
900
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
@Gene Neill managed to not get any in my hair this time, but ate a fair amount of sanding residue-- and the ubiquitous fibers ground into my forearms somehow (never fails). @AaronD the parts have arrived-- and I decided I wanted to go all in on Hayn's Hi-mod and 1x19 stainless. I'll use CJS disconnects on the fore stay and forward lowers-- Hayn makes a sweet threaded fitting for the aft lowers to turnbuckle. I sprung for a new adjustable back stay on the direct line method. Overkill perhaps-- but doing it by hand and getting the option to remove / inspect and re-use made me feel better about handing it over.

Next weekend might not have the bolt depot order in yet for all the foredeck fastners-- but the CD upgraded chainplate eyebolts are here along with the spreader brackets-- I'll have plenty more mayhem to document.

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couldn't resist-- the goofy things you do after a few hours upside down: the view from the dorade vent (getting a new of those as well)

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Jul 13, 2015
900
Catalina 22 #2552 2252 Kennewick, WA
Was hoping to follow up with the finished product-- but my eyes are clearly bigger than my technical stomach. I attempted to pull the foredeck hardware and the chainplate eyebolts, while overdrilling and potting and then reinstallation-- I got about 1/2 way home.

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I did manage to pot all the holes-- and at least get the foredeck dry fit with a unique looking set of backing plates ( reclycling what I have left from my aluminum plate). goofy looking as I had to nibble away constantly to get a fit-- but I wanted to pull them and drill them individually.

Odd bonus-- the spreader replacement took no time at all--

If anyone's played electrician for a living-- fish Stix worked like a champ to fish the mast and set the tube:

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Dec 5, 2011
550
Catalina Catalina 22 13632 Phenix City
That's some jam up work there! Great job on the unseen but important parts of the boat. If you're willing to do that kind of quality to the unseen spaces aboard, I can't wait to see your total restoration of the rest of it.
 
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