For Those of You Who Use Bowlines...

DougM · May 9, 2012

i have never encountered that problem, probably because my jib is only about a 105.. I use bowlines, but I keep the tails quite short that might make some difference. Using some of the newer high strength line might make a difference because one can use smaller diameter line at equal or greater strength. How the smaller line works with the winches could be a down side.

Steve Dion · May 9, 2012

GT: I dont think you will prevent this. I have found that the knot is the problem (not necessarily the tail). You could try some of the Tomic Tape or something like that to tie up the loose end.

Your other option which is my preferred method is to use something like a ring hitch. It makes the sheets a continuous line (rather than two lines). This may also be a problem in light air, but is less bulky than most traditional knots (like a bowline)

http://www.tribbler.com/tatman/ring-hitch.html

Cool Beans · May 9, 2012

I use my furler. . .

As I'm tacking and heading through irons, I'm rolling in my genoa partway. When the clew will clear the shrouds easily, I start pulling on the now leeward sheet and unfurl the sail and winch it down. No, it doesn't go as smoothly as it reads here. . .but it works and there are no snags :dance:

EDIT: I use bowlines as well, and I fly a 155. It laps so much I almost have to roll it up anyways

Gunni · May 9, 2012

Yes, I use bowlines, tie them with a short tail and been using New England Rope Regatta single braid for 3 years. It is so supple that the tail easily slides over the stays. Never a problem. Assume you are doing a sharp tack, and allowing the sail to blow across..

Ron20324 · May 9, 2012

GorillaToast said:
..to attach your jib sheets - how do you keep the tails from snagging in the shrouds?

I found they can be tied with the tails left or right (180 degrees different.). It can help some.

Richard Bryer · May 9, 2012

tie them with the tails "inside" the loop- ie go around the line the other way before going back thru the eye you have made. Also when you tack let the sail blow out a bit past the shrouds before bringing it in. We have raced for years, often using a 155% headsail and made it work

shemandr · May 9, 2012

Ron20324 said:
I found they can be tied with the tails left or right (180 degrees different.). It can help some.

Yes they can be tied so the tail is outboard of the shroud and that helps The release of the jib sheet is the key to a smooth tack If done correctly the clew of the jib with shoot through the foretriangle in almost a straight line and be outboard of the shroud before the trimer starts to haul it in Too often the new leeward trimer will trim too soon dragging the clew and sail over the shroud Its a matter of timing and practice And its a beautiful thing when done right - racing or cruising

kmart · May 9, 2012

I have a 140% headsail. So when tacking not only does the bowline gets snagged but the sail chaffs on the shrouds as it comes across. I solved it by adding shroud rollers. (Available at defender or somewhat easy to make yourself) Helps a great deal.

Steve Dion · May 9, 2012

Actually I solved this problem by getting a sailboat that has no shrouds, no back stays either. O-what-a-feeling!

Stu Jackson · May 9, 2012

shemandr said:
Too often the new leeward trimer will trim too soon dragging the clew and sail over the shroud Its a matter of timing and practice And its a beautiful thing when done right - racing or cruising

Agreed. Also see a lot of trimmers release too soon, also.

Ross · May 9, 2012

A properly tied bowline has the tail safely tucked inside the loop. It it is still a problem use a riggers method and seize it with small stuff to the loop.

Joe · May 9, 2012

The primary reason your sheets hang up is technique, not the knot. Do not try to pull the clew of the sail around the shrouds.... let the wind do the work for you.... when you start the tack.. ease out a foot or two on the sheet.... bring the bow through the wind and let the headsail backwind, until the boom comes across.... then toss the old sheet completely off the winch and allow the wind to bring the rest of the sail across... stripping in the slack on the new sheet, but not trying to pull the clew across the deck..

An added benefit of this technique is a more effecient turn.

If you're working with a large genoa in light air.... you may still have problems with insufficient pressure on the backwinded sail..... in this case, it is quite common to station a crew at the mast to help the sail make its journey.

If you single hand alot..... and you are still struggling with the sail... there is a simple rig you can set up that pulls the center of the foot of the sail forward to allow the clew to clear the shrouds.... This is most often used on a cutter rig where the staysail allows a minimal window for the headsail to pass through.

I'm thinking RichH posted a diagram of the set up a year or so back.... but I can't remember the exact name of the device... you would need a cringle, about mid-foot, to secure a line which is run forward to a block, then aft to the cockpit.

Damn, Rich what in the heck is the name of that rig? I'm getting old and forgetful.

RichH · May 9, 2012

Tricing line !!!! If you ever watch videos of the '87 America's Cup all the boats used tricing lines. When the jibsheet was released, another crew pulled on the trice line to pull the genoa forward and around the cap shroud and across the baby stay ... ditto on tacking 'through' between the forestay - headstay on a cutter rig.

Exact same configuration as the tack line on an asymmetric spinnaker.
Tied to middle of the foot (cringle or 'tab') of a genoa, to a block at the stem/bow, back to the cockpit.

If your 'knots' are fouling on the cap shrouds, consider the use of 'shroud rollers' - either interlocking plastic or ash wood. Example: http://www.proboat.co.uk/item.asp?dep=1&cat_id=23&prod_id=194 (sorry for the listing of 'another' supplier, but I checked the SBO chandlery and didnt find any)

If your bowline is 'hanging-up', dont use a bowline but rather use a 'buntline' - smaller and less 'tail' sticking out.

Joel H. · May 9, 2012

The P.O. put PVC shroud rollers on my foreword lowers. That, properly tied bowlines, and letting the wind do most of the work seems to do the trick here.

Joe · May 9, 2012

RichH said:
Tricing line !!!! .

Yessss... thank you... now, can I commit to memory (tricing line, tricing line... rhymes with twice, nice.... hmmm tacking with a tricing line is twice as nice.)

Roger Long · May 10, 2012

If you have splices, about the length of dockline splices put in your sheets, this is the nuts. Nothing snags on the shrouds:

The key is to put the first sheet on in the normal manner and then run both it and the bitter end of the second through the eye as shown below.

Maine Sail · May 10, 2012

GorillaToast said:
Yeah, ring hitch, cow hitch, lark's tongue, that's what I had before I got fed up with it snagging in light air and cut it in two, thinking that, "well, since most every picture I've seen of jib sheets is two bowlines..."

I tried taping the long tails someone else told me I needed for a proper bowline, and that made the knots even bulkier and more prone to snagging.

Tomorrow, I'll try short tails and make sure the knots are oriented so that that tails are on the outside when the knot comes across the shrouds. Also installing pvc on shrouds several sizes larger than the wire.

Sounds as if you are "pulling" the sail across in a tack rather than letting the sail do the work, then sheeting in once the clew is clear of the shrouds. We run a 152% genny and I can count on one hand the number of times it has become hung due to a bowline.... Nearly every one of those times is when crew has tried to "force" the tack rather than just letting the sail do the work....

A larks head will have less friction but when you need to end for end the sheets you're back to a knot...