For the Canadians: Licensed or unlicensed MMSI?

Mark Maulden · Oct 8, 2022

What’s the difference between licensed and registered?

Richard19068 · Oct 8, 2022

Tedd said:
Should I apply for a Licensed or Not Licensed MMSI?

Sorry for responding when I don't really have a good answer and hopefully someone will have more knowledgeable input but doesn't the boat need to be registered if it is going to the US?

If it is registered I'm pretty sure you can use your Canadian issued MMSI in the US.

The BoatUS website shows this in a FAQ section about MMSI:

"I own a foreign flagged vessel but use the boat in the United States can I obtain an MMSI number from BoatUS?

No. BoatUS MMSI numbers are only for U.S. registered or documented vessels. You must obtain an MMSI number from the country the vessel is flagged in."

Mark Maulden said:
What’s the difference between licensed and registered?

Similar to here (at least California) where I think most boats are required to be state registered unless they are federally documented through the US Coast Guard.

"When you own and operate a boat in Canada, you’ll likely need to licence it and/or register it, depending on the type of boat you have. Many boats are considered pleasure crafts in Canada, which means they’re used for fun and daily living. You probably have a pleasure craft if you’re spending your time going to the cottage, waterskiing or leisurely going out on the water, meaning that you’ll need to license your pleasure craft. Your pleasure craft must be licenced if it has a 7.5 kW (10 horsepower) motor or more.

In Canada, boat registration itself is required for commercial vessels, government-owned vessels, barges, commercial river rafts, vessels with a marine mortgage and vessels travelling outside of Canada. Pleasure crafts are just required to be licenced.

What Boats Are Exempt?
Pleasure crafts in British Columbia are required to be equipped with a Pleasure Craft Licence, with the following exceptions:

Pleasure crafts using a motor of less than 10 horsepower (7.5 kW)
A pleasure craft registered with Transport Canada..."

Hello Below · Oct 8, 2022

Tedd said:
Posting in PNW Cruisers on the assumption that there are greater proportion of Canadians on this forum.

I'm applying for an MMSI for my new boat. The boat is licensed (in BC), not registered. However, I probably will sail to the U.S. from time to time, since I'm only a few nm from the border. Should I apply for a Licensed or Not Licensed MMSI? For those with licensed boats and Licensed MMSIs, any problems entering the U.S.?

Tedd. Bear with me as it has been 10+ years since I applied and received the MMSI for my current boat. If you have any concerns please contact Transport/Industry Canada directly. I have found them to be very approachable and patient. But here is my take.
The licensed/unlicensed Transport Canada is referring to is for your VHF radio rather than the boat. If you plan on operating in Canadian waters only, then recreational vessels are exempt from licensing the boat’s VHF radio. However, as I often do, I believe you wish to extend your cruising grounds across the border to the south. In that case you are required to have a Maritime Mobile Radio Station Licence from Industry Canada. Initial cost and annual renewal cost is in the order of $45 and is all done online. As an aside our boat is both licensed and I do have a radio call sign (assigned when you receive your license) yet I have never been asked to present the Station License at either border crossing.

FAQ - Transport Canada

Hello Below · Oct 8, 2022

Tedd said:
So, as I understand it, when entering the U.S. a licensed boat from Canada needs to carry proof of ownership (e.g., a bill of sale) in addition to what is usually called the registration form but which, I suppose, is more correctly called the licensing form.

Yes I have been required to show proof of ownership (Bill of Sale) once in 16 years at a US POE. However every time you will be required to provide your license at each border crossings.

Tedd said:
Thanks for your comment, @Hello Below . I may have misunderstood the explanation on the TC web site but, as I understand it, if your radio is a licensed radio station then you have to get a "Licensed" MMSI, but if your radio is not a licensed radio station then you can get either a "Licensed" or a "Not Licensed" MMSI. But it appears that the "Licensed" MMSI might be advantageous (or even necessary?) when operating a Canadian-licensed vessel in the U.S. So, that is my question: Which MMSI type should I apply for, or does it matter?

It was my understanding that because I was operating my VHF radio outside of Canadian territorial water (ie US waters) I required a ship station license. Therefore I applied for “Licensed” MMSI. To confirm this I direct you to this TC paragraph:
“For inquiries regarding MMSIs, contact your nearest ISED district office.”
Let me know what you find out.

jssailem · Oct 8, 2022

In the US when a US boat travels to foreign waters they need a licensed Boat station for their VHF to operate the radio in foreign waters under the US international trade agreements that govern US Boats in foreign waters. Canada recognizes US licensed boats. The license I acquired from the FCC also included my AIS MMSI.

Since the international agreements apply to both countries I would suspect the structure to be similar for residents of each country. I would follow Hello Below’s info and discuss you options with the Canadian authority.

leo310 · Oct 9, 2022

I have been to the US many times. My MMSI # is registered to the vessel, as for the VHF you need a radio license, now there are 2 types DSC and non DSC a pilot license is not good enough for CG. Doc's for customs, Boat reg/ownership passport for all or some form of gov doc ie driver license.

walmsleyc · Oct 9, 2022

Tedd said:
Thanks for your comment, @Hello Below . I may have misunderstood the explanation on the TC web site but, as I understand it, if your radio is a licensed radio station then you have to get a "Licensed" MMSI, but if your radio is not a licensed radio station then you can get either a "Licensed" or a "Not Licensed" MMSI. But it appears that the "Licensed" MMSI might be advantageous (or even necessary?) when operating a Canadian-licensed vessel in the U.S. So, that is my question: Which MMSI type should I apply for, or does it matter?

I think there is only one type of MMSI (you can create group MMSIs on your own and they have a specific numeric format). Transport Canada just wants to know if the VHF that is it being assigned to is a Licensed Radio.

Terry Cox · Oct 9, 2022

jssailem said:
In the US when a US boat travels to foreign waters they need a licensed Boat station for their VHF to operate the radio in foreign waters under the US international trade agreements that govern US Boats in foreign waters.

Hi John. Been traveling into BC for many years, have yet to acquire a VHF license and have never been asked to present one. No plans to obtain one, either. It seems the only concern C&BP have is a valid passport and no illegal contraband.

jssailem · Oct 9, 2022

I agree Terry, often regulations are established then ignored as far as enforcement is involved. It is reasonable question is the regulation worthwhile. Yet it is on the books and enforcement may appear to be arbitrary.
May your good fortune continue.

Hello Below · Oct 10, 2022

Tedd said:
I'm guessing that, since no-one here seems to know that there is such a thing as a "Licensed" MMSI, then probably everyone has "Not Licensed" MMSIs. That indirectly answers part of my question, which is whether having a "Not Licensed" MMSI is any problem when entering the U.S. It would appear that it doesn't.

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

Tedd, from my experience I have not had any problem nor any discussion relating to MMSI or ship station license when crossing into the US or return to Canada. That does not suggest that will remain the case in the future. Also, my lack of any problems to date does not answer your original question regarding whether you should apply for a Licensed or Not Licensed MMSI? Maybe this reference can assist in your decision.

CPC-2-3-07 — Obtaining Identities in the Maritime Mobile Service

I quote the relevant paragraph:

"7.2.1 Ship station MMSI
To obtain a ship station MMSI, you must complete form AB. Select Not Licensed for a vessel that does not require a radio licence and that is fitted with only a VHF/DSC radio. Select Licensed for a vessel that requires a radio licence or is fitted with additional equipment."

I have several questions regarding this statement.
1. Does a "radio licence" mean Mobile Radio Station Licence?
2. Does "fitted with only a VHF/DSC radio" possibly include an AIS receive only unit (either separate or part of a VHF radio) and would an AIS transceiver fall under the "fitted with additional equipment" category?

My guess, for what it's worth, is that you intend on cruising in international territorial waters (US) and therefore you will require a radio licence and subsequently you will be required to apply for a licensed MMSI.
Again may I suggest you contact your local ISED office to confirm your needs. And please for the information of all, report back your findings.

Edit: Tedd I was able to locate my original application circa 2012 and I find that after discussion with ISED I applied for my MMSI number using "Annex B - MMSI Application Form - Ship Station with Radio Licence". And I only had a AIS receiver for the original application. I have since amended it to an AIS transceiver.

jssailem · Oct 10, 2022

I am opining that the referenced regulation did not consider recreational AIS transceivers on boats when it was issued. Thus the confusion about the "additional equipment" statement.

For a clear and concise response I would contact the Canadian bureaucracy and ask the question, "are AIS transceivers considered additional equipment as referenced in the website?"

I do not believe it would be an issue for you arriving into the USA. They do not enforce the VHF radio communications and the AIS is no a voice based communication. It is like your transponder in a plane, only you have no control over it. It works autonomously and reports what it hears on your screen.

sail sfbay · Oct 10, 2022

Tedd said:
..........Should I apply for a Licensed or Not Licensed MMSI?......

You might find this Q&A helpful: Frequently Asked Questions (canada.ca).

You will not require a licence if you meet both of the following criteria Licensing exemptions - Spectrum management and telecommunications:

the vessel is not operated in the sovereign waters of a country other than Canada.
the radio equipment on board the vessel is only capable of operating on frequencies that are allocated for maritime mobile communications or marine radio navigation. You can verify whether the frequencies you use are in the maritime mobile band by referring to Regulation by Reference RBR-2.

So since you plan to fail to the Uas you will need a license.

Suggest consulting with Industry Canada office on licensing requirements in regards to your domestic and international sailing plans.

Richard19068 · Oct 10, 2022

I'm going to chime in again from southern California. I don't have a Canadian boat but I do have family in BC and have sailed there a few times so do have some interest in the subject.

It seems pretty clear that if you are taking the boat to US waters you need a "radio license".

If your radio is licensed then you need to check the box on your form AB that the MMSI type is "licensed".

These are Canadian rules. Seems pretty straight forward but then things involving goverment can go crazy at any time.

Maritime Mobile Service Identities (MMSIs) and Maritime Identities (MIs) - Spectrum management and telecommunications

Form AB: Ship with VHF/DSC only, unlicensed or licensed radio

Not licensed: If your radio is installed on a ship and you’re staying in Canadian waters, you do not need a radio licence. Complete Form AB and choose the option “Not Licensed”.
Licensed: If your radio is installed on a ship and you might leave Canadian waters, you need to apply for a radio licence. Please refer to the CPC-2-3-07, Obtaining Identities in the Maritime Mobile Service document and complete form IC-3020. Then complete Form ABand choose the option “Licensed”.
- Visit the Licensing exemptions page for more information about radio licensing requirements for boats.

The form IC-3020 may be unavailable but it looks like you can ~~register~~ (edit: license) the radio here at an Industry Canada site:

Radiocommunication Licensing Services - Spectrum Management System

Radiocommunication Licensing Services access pages

sms-sgs.ic.gc.ca

Of course, as othere have said, there may be scant enforcement on this type of thing. But it's always good to be aware of the actual rules.

sail sfbay · Oct 10, 2022

Tedd......what did the Canadian MMSI licensing agency advise?

Hello Below · Oct 10, 2022

sail sfbay said:
Tedd......what did the Canadian MMSI licensing agency advise?

Government offices were closed today as it is a statutory holiday, Canadian Thanksgiving.

For the Canadians: Licensed or unlicensed MMSI?

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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