For Donalex re Link 2000

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Feb 26, 2004
23,348
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
I remember reading your response posts on the Link 2000 operation a month or so ago and have a question for you. I have had ours installed for about two months now. Over the weekend I checked the DATA and noted that the CEF is down to 71. The manual discusses equalization, and bad batteries with a reduction in the CEF. I equalized the house bank two weeks ago. I seem to remember that you suggested using a user-installed CEF of 94. Any comments especially regarding the CEF of 71? I've considered changing it to 94, but am concerned that the feature of having it change may be a good indicator of the problems mentioned in the manual.
 
Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
CEF

Stu, Though I have the Link 2000 I do not recall commenting on CEF. The Charging Efficiency Factor of a normal lead acid cell is about 85% - 90%. i.e. one has to put 10% more in as against what one can get out, the loss being in heat generated within the battery and/or electrolysis of the acid into hydrogen and oxygen when fully charged. I would expect a NiCad to have a lower CEF because one charges them for 14 hours to get the full I/10 capacity out. For info the actual CEF value set into the Link will not affect your charge/discharge regime because this is set by the battery voltage and charging will continue until the Link recognises its fully charged parameter has been met, (charging current drops to 2% of stated battery capacity = 4 amps on a 200 Ah battery). The CEF is a function of battery chemistry and one cannot alter it so I suggest using the values in the manual for your type of battery so the meters will read correctly. The manual for the Xantrex version is on http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/83/docserve.aspx but it looks the same text - but not diagrams - as my original Heart Interface one. Hope all goes well. Regards,
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,348
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Thanks, more detailed question

F02 sets the battery type and should set the CEF automatically (our older models only have a 1 or 2 or wet or gells) so it's A87 or A90 F06 allows a manual setting of the CEF Under the DATA page, there is a discussion of CEF So, it appears that the CEF can be changed by F06 which appears to override F02 That's why I was asking about the CEF on page 15, last sentence in that paragraph.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,348
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Link 2000 -- Additional Info, and for Rich Stidger, too

I went back a reread some of the material from a thread called Link 2000 Install. Rich Stidger wrote this, I thought it was from you, Donalex, but you had contributed to that thread when you discussed the reset. The Related Link is to that thread. "Submitted by Rich Stidger of 1997 h40.5 Bristol, RI on 12/07 regarding General_interest: Title: Be careful of the Link 2000 info "I have a Link 20 which is similar to the Link 2000 insofar as battery monitoring. The Link metering device has BY DEFAULT a characteristic that can fool you into thinking that your batteries are fully charged when in fact they are not. This problem is made worse by using the engine alternator as the recharging source. Here is the rub: The Link very nicely counts the AH used and replenished so you can see the SOC at any given time. However it has rules that govern how it counts. The default settings (for flooded cells, AGM is slightly different) are these: The load current is integrated over time to count AH used. Charging current is "discounted" by the Charging Efficiency Factor when counting AH returned to the battery. The automatic Efficiency Factor STARTING POINT is 0.95. Thus for every AH put into the battery credit is given for 0.95AH. This is because charging is not 100% efficient. Charging is considered complete (or 100%) when EITHER one of the following two conditions are met: A) The AH have counted back up to a positive number. B) The voltage is 13.2V or higher and the charge current is 2% of the bank capacity or less. Both the voltage and current criteria must be held for a minimum of 6 minutes. When EITHER condition A or B above is met, the 100% LED will flash indicating that the battery are completely recharged. When the batteries return to a discharge mode, the AH display will reset to zero. Also the Charging Efficiency Factor gets recalculated at each discharge/charge cycle. For example, suppose that you start charging when your batteries are down by 50AH. When the Link 2000 shows that there are still 10AH remaining to be replaced, the system measures 13.2V and a charge current below 2% of your bank size. At that point, the 100% LED begins to flash and upon removal of the charge current and discharge begins the AH display resets to ZERO. And since the Link 2000 "thinks" that the batteries were charged sooner than expected, it modifies the Charging Efficiency Factor and stores that value for the next charge cycle. BUT IN FACT THE BATTERIES ARE STILL DOWN BY 10AH. The problem with this method is that there are conditions that can cause the voltage and charge current to met the "Fully Charged" parameters. For instance suppose your battery bank is 300AH. 2% of 300 is 6A. If you are charging with your engine alternator and the regulator has tapered off to 13.6V at 9A charging and the refrigerator cycles on drawing 5A, the charging current will drop to 4A which is below the 2% parameter. After 6 minutes, the Link 2000 claims the batteries are fully charged. However, they are not. In this scenario you now have batteries that are undercharged and a meter that not only thinks they are charged but were also charged at a higher charging efficiency. WRONG ON BOTH COUNTS. As this cycle repeats the batteries progress to a lower SOC. When batteries are not fully recharged, sulfation occurs and batteries will not accept a charge as readily as they once did and because they are at a lower SOC they reach a given discharge point quicker. Eventually the batteries fail. What can you do to prevent this? First, change the default parameters in the Link 2000 so that it cannot declare the batteries fully charged unless the AH actually count to ZERO. Change the Charging Efficiency Factor so that the Link 2000 will not recalculate but remain fixed- 94% works well for me." ************************************ ************************************ This is consistent with the discussion earlier about the CEF that I mentioned. It could be that I am in a cycle of undercharging, which I can easily fix by plugging in for a few days (I don't leave the boat plugged in when I'm not there, we have an 11 watt solar panel which keeps up with the self discharge of the wet cells and the parasitic drain of the Link). Or it may be from the equalization. Donalex's suggestion was to reset the Link. I'm still pondering.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,348
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Another way to do it would be to

use F04 and toggle the AH and KWHR which changes the CEF to 100%. Pretty interesting interrelationships between the F02, F04 and F06 functions. As Rich wrote: "What can you do to prevent this? First, change the default parameters in the Link 2000 so that it cannot declare the batteries fully charged unless the AH actually count to ZERO. Change the Charging Efficiency Factor so that the Link 2000 will not recalculate but remain fixed- 94% works well for me." So, the F04 (AH KWHR which resets the CEF to 100%)should do just that, OR reset the F06 CEF manually as Rich suggests rather than having the machine recalculate it per default. Also, note that Rich's example is for alternator charging using the Link 2000 as a "monitor" and NOT as a "controller" since the alternator's regulator would determine the output of the alternator. The Link 2000 would just show the batteries charged when they're not really full. However, when using the Link 2000 to control a Freedom I/C (charger side) it could actually kick the charger to float sooner with less than full batteries. My next step: What I also need to do is to use the shorepower charger (the Freedom 15 I/C) and charge the house bank fully again and see what happens to the CEF.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,348
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
CEF Recalculation

The small print in the manual, which I've reread any number of times, also has a mention that until the recalculation is done "more than SIX TIMES" it'll be weird (weird is MY definition!:)). So, just yesterday, it went to nine times and the CEF is now 85! My conclusion is that, first the recalculation does not happen reasonably before the sixth time based on algorithm programmed into the chip, and two, as inferred earlier, the Link 2000 works just fine with the Freedom Inverter/Charger, BUT and this is a BIG but which folks should understand) that it doesn't do the same with alternator input and has to be carefully tracked based on Rich's suggestion and well written description. The reason is simple, as he said: IF the voltage is within parameters AND the amperage is down to 2% - my case it's 7.2 amps -- 2% of our 360 ah house bank --- the Link will think it's full when the bank has NOT been fully replenished. I saw it yesterday. Amazing what you can learn when you read the manual! Thanks for all the input, gentlemen, it's been fun to continue to learn. I hope RichH is having fun with his Link 2000 and his special fridge battery bank! :):):)
 
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