Fog Courtesy? & Cautions

Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Ok this is going to be a little bit of a frustration rant but mostly at folks who probably do not participate in these forums anyway.. I'm sure you guys don't behave like this..

I just returned from a rather foggy cruise and the growth of the GPS plotter is causing some rather inflated man jewels, (brass balls), on the water. No, make that big reckless man jewells.

As one who grew up navigating in the fog, before the advent of GPS plotters, and also one who spent thousands of hours working the foggy waters of the North East as a commercial lobsterman & while fishing for Blue Fin Tuna, I am alarmed at the new quality of boaters who are willing to venture out in this stuff, totally ill prepared, being guided by nothing more than blind faith and a GPS screen.

Thick fog deserves RESPECT and you must use some common sense when out in the soup.

Here's a list of some things I witnessed, not just once, but many times over just one week, in visibilities from 70 feet to about 400 feet.

Boat #1 - Sailboat from MA in 100 feet of visibility = No running lights, no radar reflector, no radar, no fog signals/horn, boat not a good radar target & barely showing up about every third sweep, not monitoring VHF 16 or any of the standard channels.

Boat #2 - Sea Ray from South Portland doing 30+ knots in 150 feet of vis. Picked up at 1 mile out as a random sea clutter type of return, tracked it, and realized it was a vessel moving at a high rate of speed directly towards me. Made hard turn to stbd and Sea Ray passed seconds later within 70 feet. Did not slow down, did not respond to VHF 09, 13, 16 or 72 hails. No fog horn, no radar, no running lights no radar reflector boat showed up like sea clutter at best. If my radar screen was anywhere other than the helm he might have run us down.

Boat #3 - Center console from the mid coast doing close to 30 knots and heading straight for a nun. This is what all the "inexperienced in fog boaters" do in fog. Do yourself a favor and STAY AWAY FROM MARKS IN THE FOG! Set your course well proud of any widely used nav aids. All the "new bravado" guys with plotters & no radar head straight for them. "Hey baby, see how cool this GPS thingy is, we almost hit that can!":D

I could go on and on and on from just a short trip. Please don't get me wrong we did meet plenty experienced skippers of boats who were using proper fog etiquette, communications, lights & signals but there seem to me more and more people who have NO CLUE how dangerous they really are to themselves and others.

If your one and only tool for navigation in the fog is a plotter, please, please, please STAY PUT! You don't absolutely need radar, though more so today than in the 70's or 80's because inexperienced people did not go out in the fog as they do today, but you DO need some other items to communicate and let others know of your presence.

If you can afford a boat, and to risk your life and the life of others, in 100 foot visibility, you can certainly afford a VHF, a fog horn/signal, running lights and a radar reflector. Are these items too much to ask for? Apparently they are for many these days..:doh:

Things to do when in fog to be a good boater and to be courteous to others.

Radar Reflector
= BUY ONE AND USE IT!!!! Just because you choose not to have radar does not mean you should choose to be invisible or nearly invisible to the rest of the world who may be practicing good collision avoidance.

Radar = If you have radar it should not just be reserved not just for foggy days. Please get in the habit of running your radar on clear days and tuning it for what you can see around you. Most owners are shocked when they run their radar in clear weather and realize how poorly they have it tuned. If you can't see the targets on a clear day you can't see them in the fog.

VHF = USE IT and by that I mean turn the darn thing on and monitor VHF 16. PLEASE! I don't have your cell number on speed dial...

Running Lights
= When the visibility drops USE THEM!!! They do help and can add another 50-100 feet of warning.

Fog Signals = For Christ sake Wal*Mart sells sports air horns for $6.00. Please get one and use it properly.

Slow Down = A single sailboat traveling at 6 knots is covering 10.1 feet per second. In 100 feet of visibility the collision time to a fixed object is roughly 11 seconds from your first physical sighting. Now take two sailboats converging, each traveling at 6 knots, your collision time in 100 feet of visibility, from your first physical sighting, becomes just 5 seconds.

A power boat traveling 30 knots, on a collision course, will collide with a sailboat doing six knots, at 100 feet of visibility, in under two seconds from the first sighting! You will NOT have enough reaction time to avoid a collision with a clown like this otehr than to have radar and been tracking him. Think people don't go fast in the fog? Think again..

Some photo examples of what these reckless boaters look like:

There really is a boat here a few hundred feet off my stern. No radar, no reflector, no running lights, no horn signals and not even a VHF response. "Dumb dee dumb, sailing awayyyy, dumb dee dumb, doh', a boat, how'd that get there?":confused::confused::eek:

Here's a radar shot of that boat when it was actually showing up. It's the red spec just above the 18 foot spot off my stbd stern quarter. The two targets ahead and to port and stbd were two J Boats traveling together both of which had reflectors when they went by. SOME BOATS JUST DO NOT SHOW UP ON RADAR!!! The guy behind me owns one!


1st class clown (see speed above), no radar, no lights, no horn signals, no reflector and also not showing up well, and not monitoring VHF!


For reference this is 400 feet of visibility from yesterday morning (400 feet is generally fairly good vis for Maine fog):


And here's the screen shot with the cursor just over the closest radar image at 411 feet (upper left corner measures distance).:




It scares me how many people are just plain dangerous and have no clue they are being so reckless. If they succeed once they do it again only this time with a greater level of comfort and confidence.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,435
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
and if they get home, they drive cars and vote... Unfortunately, you can't teach responsibility, accountability or intelligence
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,186
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
SoCal Experience

We are fortunate to not get too much fog. However, on a nice fall day, it caught my boat and crew off guard. It was the advent of reasonably expensive Loran and I had just installed one. No radar tho. Returning to Marina del Rey, CA from the Santa Monica buoy, we got socked fast. I put one of the guys on the helm and I went below to get a fix on the chart. I picked a depth contour to the harbor and put in the coordinates to the harbor mouth. We proceeded slowly listening to the panicked chatter on VHF. Suddenly, a 34' Searay tears across my bow at 90 degrees. He could have easily broadsided us. The guy had a nice young bikinied thing sitting next to him and a 36 mile radar scanner rotating merrily away. That caused me much concern since one of us had the pointy end facing wrong. Long story short, we made it back fine. He made it up about 50' onto Venice beach.
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
Glad we don't have

a lot of pea soup fog around here. But, what I do when we do get heavy fog, is to stay put if at all possible. Usually we get it early mornings and it burns off pretty quickly. I have all the mentioned items, with the exception of a radar, but still gonna stay put if I possibly can. And blow the damn horn and listen to the VHF. I agree that there are way too many idiots out among us. And by the way, speaking of a horn. I recently found one on ebay, for less than ten bucks, that operates on plain ol air. Takes about 150 lbs. to fill it, which takes about 30 seconds with a really small 12V compressor. It is every bit as loud as the CO2 ones, long as the compressor works will not run out of air and is CG approved.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
It is unfortunate that "survival of the fittest" may well mean the doom of a capable sailor.

I disagree with the breath-alyzer connected to the steering wheel thingie on principal, but maybe they could make the GPS so it wouldn't work in the fog unless a radar reflector was deployed. Or for boats that go more than 10 knots.

Where's that architect when ya need him?:):):)
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
A member named Paladin over on the wooden boat forum holds that half inch wide two and half to four inch long aluminum foil strips mixed and filled into a gallon plastic jug produces the best radar reflection. Rather like the "chafe" used during WW11.
 
Jun 21, 2009
110
Hunter 27 Sparrows Point
Maine Sail - I liked your tutorial. Thanks for sharing. I don't head out in bad weather, but conditions can always change on the water.
 
Dec 9, 2008
426
1980 Hunter 30 "Denali" Seaford, VA
always interesting to see the maine pics when you are fogged in up there so much... is it just a ploy to keep us all away? :D

we've never been caught out in the fog in the sailboat, been heading out in the fishing boat fishing in some fog a few times, but I don't think we ever exceeded the speed vs visibility "rule" I have in my head. Sooner or later we'll be cruising and get fogged in and unless I just have to get home, I'd probably stay put. We just don't have the much fog around here, don't have a radar reflector or horn, but when I get some extra :doh:money, I will probably get them. When I come to maine, I'll bring a floating tank :dance:

I see people running the radar arrays on motor boats here all the time in perfectly clear weather, never really made any sense to me, maybe to track boats instead of looking around?:confused: I usually just make fun of them...:D
 

RAD

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Jun 3, 2004
2,330
Catalina 30 Bay Shore, N.Y.
Last summer in the middle of the day on our way to the beach the fog rolled in like I never saw before and visibility was hundreds of feet or less and to make matters worse I was near the ferry routes to Fire Island, I know Free Spirit can be seen well in the fog according to my friend whom I travel with so I know the ferry's can see me but on that day I quickly headed toward skinny water cause I can and while listening to the radio and sounding the horn I too was shocked to see nautical nitwits traveling 25 -35 knots with no radar into the area I just left and missing me by feet!! :eek:
I have sat in the parking lot of my marina that is a very busy entrance with ferry's and its amazing that there has not been an accident with people on a plane entering this harbor in the fog
So this season Free Spirit has a radar system on it and I have a little more piece of mind, I too will stay put if the stuff rolls in while at anchor or docked but some times shit happens while sailing and I'm ready for it
Also I now feel more comfortable cruising toward Montauk and Block Island knowing I'll run into fog.
I believe that these nautical nitwits use there GPS systems to get them where they what to go and don't even put the collision factor into play
 
Sep 29, 2008
1,944
Catalina 310 #185 Quantico
Best Radar Detectors

Maine Sail, Nice post and it got me to thinking I don't have a radar reflector and like everything else I hear that some are better than others. What do people recommend? I have not been out in fog since I was bringing my boat home in late March on the Chesapeake Bay when around 0530 we got hit with fog. We did post a watch (me on the bow, my brother driving) and it did not clear until about 0900. A reflector would be a good thing to have, even though my first inclination would be to anchor and wait it out.
 
Jun 8, 2009
64
2 30 Tall Rig Muskegon
Does an aluminum mast reflect radar?

Thanks for your post. I am new to sailing this year. I bought my brother's sailboat last fall/winter. I don't have a radar reflector. But I see many various size and type of boats on my radar. They all don't have reflectors. I thought if I could see boats without radar on my radar unit, then others could see me. Does my aluminum mast reflect radar?
 
Last edited:
Jun 8, 2009
64
2 30 Tall Rig Muskegon
What is "catch rain" position on radar reflector?

What is catch rain position on radar reflector?

Also, Doesn't the aluminum mast reflect radar?

Thanks.
 

tc0nn

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Apr 28, 2009
19
2 26X Lewisville
"Catch rain" meaning it is concave downwards where it will collect rain like a bird bath...
 
Jul 31, 2009
34
2 Contest 36s Sag Harbor
The Davis reflector is 3 round right angle planes of aluminum formed into what looks like a sphere.

The idea is that a radar signal striking one of the planes will bounce to the other two - angle of reflection = top angle of incidence and end up going ight back in the direction it came. Hence the term - Radar reflector.

To get this to work you want ALL 3 planes involved and the way to do that for horizontal incident beams is to have them all at 45° to the ground/sea in this case.

Catch rain means that the 3 planes when viewed from the top of the device would be oriented such that the intersection of all 3 planes is at the lowest point - hence "catch rain".
 

Gail R

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Apr 22, 2009
261
Pearson 34 Freeport, ME
Not sure which day MaineSail is referring to, but I suspect Sunday Aug. 2, which also happened to be the day of the lobster boat races off Harpswell. Lots of yahoos out that day, for sure. I'm surprised they ran the races in that visibility (they'd been postponed due to the fog the week before).

On his advice to NOT go to marks: I have mixed feelings. Before the days of GPS, we would often navigate toward audible marks that were easier to find, so we could verify our position for the next leg of the trip. We did all the securite calls on 16 and 13, flew radar reflectors, the whole nine yards. I still remember several of us in little 25-26 footers arriving at the Turnip Island Ledge buoy and having two large sportfishes come to the same mark at the same time at about half throttle. Major pucker factor.

Turns out one of them was our slip neighbor at the time. Back at the dock, he gave us an earful about bunching up like that, complete with slurred speech and the odor of alcohol on his breath. We gave him an earful about coming into high traffic areas at half throttle, not watching his radar carefully, and not monitoring 16 and 13. Kept quiet about the drunkenness.

So I can understand the "don't go directly to the mark" philosophy. But it's going to be tough to get out of the habit of navigating toward marks. I still like to have visual confirmation of my location (something we're required to do when racing) and I don't always have 100 percent absolute trust in the GPS. But whenever we are in fog, we have the horn at the ready and pay extra attention when near a mark or other area where traffic may be an issue. Get the head out of the boat and LISTEN.
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
I was out on that same day an hour or two behind Maine Sail. We had 3 boats with mine being the only one with radar. They followed me and I conveyed targets to them via ch 71 while monitoring 16. We all sailed in order to hear other boats coming which is a huge advantage when in the fog. We have a horn and use it when needed but I admit to not sounding it at the prescribed intervals. That day I was on the water for 3 hours and did not hear even one fog horn.

Most of the powerboats I saw were making at least 15 kts.

BTW, one of the biggest radar signatures I saw was from a 12' aluminum boat. One of the smallest was a large fishing boat.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
On his advice to NOT go to marks: I have mixed feelings. Before the days of GPS, we would often navigate toward audible marks that were easier to find, so we could verify our position for the next leg of the trip. We did all the securite calls on 16 and 13, flew radar reflectors, the whole nine yards. I still remember several of us in little 25-26 footers arriving at the Turnip Island Ledge buoy and having two large sportfishes come to the same mark at the same time at about half throttle. Major pucker factor.
Gail,

I fully understand wanting to make visual confirmation and without radar this is something that is a very good idea. Not depending entirely or trusting the GPS is also good practice. Unfortunately everyone has the same idea and marks get awfully clutterd in the fog as you pointed out.

For those with radar, and who can see the mark, it is still a good idea not to get close seeing as you already have visual confirmation on your screen and plotter. If all the boats in Maine with radar stayed 1/8 mile off the marks there would be a lot less crowding..

I've actually seen boats tied off to cans & nuns waiting for the fog to lift or for someone to come along they can follow.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
We have a horn and use it when needed but I admit to not sounding it at the prescribed intervals. That day I was on the water for 3 hours and did not hear even one fog horn.
Years ago I had been guilty of not using my horn at prescribed intervals but today, with automated signals at the flip of a switch, there just no excuse not to follow the COLREGS.



BTW, one of the biggest radar signatures I saw was from a 12' aluminum boat. One of the smallest was a large fishing boat.
This is why I always suggest using your radar on clear days so you can properly tune it for those non-clear days. The frustrating thing is that you never know how boats will return radar unless you have a buddy monitor your boat from theirs. I was tracking a classic Tartan 41 last week who showed up huge until he rounded a mark ahead of us and he nearly went stealth. With his stern to us he showed up well but beam to he did not. Boats may return a good signal on one bearing then turn and return very little. More often than not boats using reflectors have shown up very well, and often boats with no reflectors do too, but you never know. A reflector is no guarantee but it certainly can't hurt you chances of being seen on radar and in terms of boat expenses they are on the cheap insurance end of the spectrum. Our radome is spinning sun or fog..


Sunday the fog was not too bad, but at times did close down thick. Some of those photos are from earlier in the week. The 400 foot visibility photo was from Sunday leaving the Goslings as well as the sailboat off our stern. I like to measure the distance to a fixed object to determine the rough visibility distance, not that it ever stays constant. In calm water it can be very difficult to get a sense for where the fog ends and the water begins. With wind on the water it's a bit easier to get a sense.
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,804
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
The last weekend in July my wife and I spent a beautiful Saturday anchored in Quissett Harbor (Falmouth). I had a choice of heading home that evening or the next morning. She had a wedding shower @ 10:00am about an hours drive from our boatyard. The forecast was for great weather both days so I convinced her to stay the night have dinner in Woods Hole and head out at 6:00am. I got up @ 5:30 and made coffee to a thick fog. I’m not sure what the visibility was but it scared me.
I let her sleep until 7:30 at which time she was upset and worried about being late for the shower. I am a new sailor and this was my first experience in fog. I do have a chartplotter, radar and a radar reflector so I guess I was prepared . We headed out and the only thing I saw was another sailboat in the 7 mile trek home. I was able to pick him up on the radar before ever seeing him:dance:. What scared me the most was crossing the shipping lanes heading towards the Cape Cod Canal. There wasn’t much for wind so we had to power the whole way. I was about a mile from home when the skies grew very dark (on top of the fog). Within a minute they opened up and rained like I’ve never seen before. I couldn't see anything and my radar just turned purple with interference. Then came the thunder and lightening. Can’t tell you how helpless I felt traveling at 6 knots. I had three small runabouts following me in. I just remember thinking I wouldn’t want to be them. They had no idea where they where! Reading this post, I’m proud to say I did have my running lights on. I was monitoring channel 16 and had my horn next to me the whole time. I never used it nor did I hear anyone else using one. When I pulled up to our mooring I felt a feeling of accomplishment.Then I read the post on the Bismarck Dinius story and feel like no matter how prepared and cautious you are you just never know.


Bob