I have a whale pump attached to my bulkhead to clean out the bladder in the Vberth of my H37C. Everything works, but... When I pump out the bladder contents through the deck fitting, it works fine pumping out. It works whether I am using an electric suction pump from the dock, or the manual whale pump from the V berth. When I try to put water back down the pipe to flush the bladder and system clean, it fills the pipe -- apparently from the deck to the whale pump-- and will not flow into the bladder. I have tried every configuration of valves on the whale pump (up goes to the deck outlet, down to the out thru hull) and the water wil not go down the pipe from the deck. That leaves me with the possibility of standing sewage in the pipe leading to the deck. Guaranteed to stink.. My backup, which is very time consuming and wears the head machinery, is to pour fresh water from the shower through the head and into the tank, then pump it out again. That can't be good for the head (a Jabsco electric). Is there something about the whale pump valve I do not understand, or is this just the way it works with the manual pump system? Sanders SV Good News Sacramento
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
There IS something you don't quite understand
But it's not the Whale pump, it's basic physics. The pump is essentially a blockage in the hose between the deckfill and the tank. If you want to put water down the deckfill into the tank you'll have bypass the pump with a y-valve that gives you a choice between going through the pump or going down the other side of it into the tank. I'm surprised that the tank can be pumped out by a dockside pumpout with the Whale pump blockin the way. If you don't want install a y-valve , you'll have to find another way to put water in the tank that doesn't put "excess wear and tear" on the rest of your boat's systems. You're right that pouring water into the toilet bowl and flushing the toilet isn't good for the toilet--at least, not unless you're also leaving the head intake seacock open. If you close it, you'll fry the impeller in in the head intake pump. Keep that up and you'll be asking why the toilet no longer pumps in any flush water.
But it's not the Whale pump, it's basic physics. The pump is essentially a blockage in the hose between the deckfill and the tank. If you want to put water down the deckfill into the tank you'll have bypass the pump with a y-valve that gives you a choice between going through the pump or going down the other side of it into the tank. I'm surprised that the tank can be pumped out by a dockside pumpout with the Whale pump blockin the way. If you don't want install a y-valve , you'll have to find another way to put water in the tank that doesn't put "excess wear and tear" on the rest of your boat's systems. You're right that pouring water into the toilet bowl and flushing the toilet isn't good for the toilet--at least, not unless you're also leaving the head intake seacock open. If you close it, you'll fry the impeller in in the head intake pump. Keep that up and you'll be asking why the toilet no longer pumps in any flush water.
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Dan Sheehan AMS
Manual pumps
Manual pumps will only flow one way. There is a flapper valve that will not allow backflow. This valve is essential to the operation of the pump. This means you can draw through the pump in the direction it normally pumps, but you should not be able to force any flow the other way.
Manual pumps will only flow one way. There is a flapper valve that will not allow backflow. This valve is essential to the operation of the pump. This means you can draw through the pump in the direction it normally pumps, but you should not be able to force any flow the other way.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
True, but there's more to it...
Water can't flow through a pipe that has an obstruction in it...the pump is an obstruction...and would be, even if it could switched to pump in either direction. Even if that WERE possible, water would have to be pumped past it...no way water could flow through it.
Water can't flow through a pipe that has an obstruction in it...the pump is an obstruction...and would be, even if it could switched to pump in either direction. Even if that WERE possible, water would have to be pumped past it...no way water could flow through it.
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Edward Kennedy
Move the Y Valve
I think your problem is a simple one. It sounds like your Y valve is between the pump and the deck & hull outlets. Unless you have a need to manually pump the waste out the deck fitting, it should be moved. The Y valve belongs between the tank and the the hand pump. This way, when using the marina's pumpout station, the waste goes straight from the tank, through the Y valve, and out the deck fitting. The hand pump's inlet is hooked to the 2nd outlet of the Y valve, and the pump's outlet goes through a vented loop (Above the waterline), and then to the hull fitting's seacock.
I think your problem is a simple one. It sounds like your Y valve is between the pump and the deck & hull outlets. Unless you have a need to manually pump the waste out the deck fitting, it should be moved. The Y valve belongs between the tank and the the hand pump. This way, when using the marina's pumpout station, the waste goes straight from the tank, through the Y valve, and out the deck fitting. The hand pump's inlet is hooked to the 2nd outlet of the Y valve, and the pump's outlet goes through a vented loop (Above the waterline), and then to the hull fitting's seacock.
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Sam Lust
Peggy ----
It's just a silly diaphram type bellows pump. Theree's NOTHING on the inside. Nothing to restrict flow but a couple of thin pieces of light rubber that bend out of the way as they do their job. They are PASSIVE VALVES. That is, their movement is caused by high or low pressure. No cams, no springs, no rods, no nothing. Pumping is accomplished by pulling OUT the diaphram to create LOW pressure, which you might call vacuum. It then is pushed in to cause pressure inside the wide open chamber, pushing , in this case poop out the other way. Hunter has been setting up their holding and pumpout systems like this since the late 70's / early 80's. The valves in the DIAPHRAM pump do just as they should, acting just like simple check valves, imposing close to ZERO restriction in the direction of intended flow. They WILL however, completely block flow back into the tank. Yoy hook the pump-out hose up and the valves, flappers actually, just lift out of the way and the unspeakable liquid flows right past them. Remove the vacuum and they drop back to their home position. Try to force flow back against them and they seal up the port soild. The more back pressure you put against them the better they seal against it. Got it? On my 33 I have an electric mascerator pump hooked in with a couple of cheap PVC ball valves and PVC domestic plumbing pipe. Cheap and CAN NOT permeate! I can pump out using the mascerator when beyond the 3 mile limit, or I can swing the valves and use a shoreside pumpout, bypassing the mascerator, or, in our case on Barnegat Bay, call up the Pump-Out boat, Circle of Life, and he'll tie up to us and pump us out while we swing at anchor. Most refreshing. The pipe pitches are set so there are never any low spots to entrap anything. I can backwash either path. The mascerator does impose a back flow restriction, and will pass flush water back to the bladder very slowly. (It has to go through the chew-em-up blade and the rubber impeller to get back to the tank/bladder. Two ways to bypass the pump: 1 - Two "Y" valves and attendant hose and connectors to go around the pump, or 2 - One "Y" valve and a direct hose to the bladder, bypassing the pump and extraction point completely
It's just a silly diaphram type bellows pump. Theree's NOTHING on the inside. Nothing to restrict flow but a couple of thin pieces of light rubber that bend out of the way as they do their job. They are PASSIVE VALVES. That is, their movement is caused by high or low pressure. No cams, no springs, no rods, no nothing. Pumping is accomplished by pulling OUT the diaphram to create LOW pressure, which you might call vacuum. It then is pushed in to cause pressure inside the wide open chamber, pushing , in this case poop out the other way. Hunter has been setting up their holding and pumpout systems like this since the late 70's / early 80's. The valves in the DIAPHRAM pump do just as they should, acting just like simple check valves, imposing close to ZERO restriction in the direction of intended flow. They WILL however, completely block flow back into the tank. Yoy hook the pump-out hose up and the valves, flappers actually, just lift out of the way and the unspeakable liquid flows right past them. Remove the vacuum and they drop back to their home position. Try to force flow back against them and they seal up the port soild. The more back pressure you put against them the better they seal against it. Got it? On my 33 I have an electric mascerator pump hooked in with a couple of cheap PVC ball valves and PVC domestic plumbing pipe. Cheap and CAN NOT permeate! I can pump out using the mascerator when beyond the 3 mile limit, or I can swing the valves and use a shoreside pumpout, bypassing the mascerator, or, in our case on Barnegat Bay, call up the Pump-Out boat, Circle of Life, and he'll tie up to us and pump us out while we swing at anchor. Most refreshing. The pipe pitches are set so there are never any low spots to entrap anything. I can backwash either path. The mascerator does impose a back flow restriction, and will pass flush water back to the bladder very slowly. (It has to go through the chew-em-up blade and the rubber impeller to get back to the tank/bladder. Two ways to bypass the pump: 1 - Two "Y" valves and attendant hose and connectors to go around the pump, or 2 - One "Y" valve and a direct hose to the bladder, bypassing the pump and extraction point completely
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
I don't think he HAS a y-valve.
Or even a tee or wye fitting in the tank discharge line. And with the pump inline, it takes some powerful pumpout to empty the tank. Can't be good for the pump either.
Or even a tee or wye fitting in the tank discharge line. And with the pump inline, it takes some powerful pumpout to empty the tank. Can't be good for the pump either.
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Sanders LaMont
Thanks all- where else would adults debate potties
Ed, and others, have the solution. I can move the Y valve to the other side of the whale pump so I can go straight to the deck fitting, and back without the flap/obnstruction. I'll think it through (it is one of many pending projects) but that seems a reasonable approach. Maybe I'll wait till I replace the bladder with one of those good tanks Peggy talks about! Meanwhile, yes I have two Y valves in the system. One is built in to the whale pump and routes outgoing waste either to the deck fitting or to the out thru hull. The other (a whale valve) is a T that routes from the head to the holding tank, or overboard. Now, I'm sure that is perfectly clear!!! Thanks Sanders
Ed, and others, have the solution. I can move the Y valve to the other side of the whale pump so I can go straight to the deck fitting, and back without the flap/obnstruction. I'll think it through (it is one of many pending projects) but that seems a reasonable approach. Maybe I'll wait till I replace the bladder with one of those good tanks Peggy talks about! Meanwhile, yes I have two Y valves in the system. One is built in to the whale pump and routes outgoing waste either to the deck fitting or to the out thru hull. The other (a whale valve) is a T that routes from the head to the holding tank, or overboard. Now, I'm sure that is perfectly clear!!! Thanks Sanders
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