Flotation in an O'Day

[dkahley]

I'm rebuilding an O'Day 20 and looking for a better alternative for interior flotation than the styrafoam I found underneath the forward bearth. I don't want to break my bank using the two-part foam, and although I heard that Pool Noodles are a slighty better alternative than the styrafoam, I still haven't bought into that alternative. Suggestions PLEASE!

One other question too. My interior cushion wer rebuilt by a prior owner and they used open cell foam. I'd like to replace that foam with a closed cell variety for less mildew and as back-up flotation. Any good thoughts on that idea?

 

[ebsail]

I'm rebuilding an O'Day 20 and looking for a better alternative for interior flotation than the styrafoam I found underneath the forward bearth. I don't want to break my bank using the two-part foam, and although I heard that Pool Noodles are a slighty better alternative than the styrafoam, I still haven't bought into that alternative. Suggestions PLEASE!

One other question too. My interior cushion wer rebuilt by a prior owner and they used open cell foam. I'd like to replace that foam with a closed cell variety for less mildew and as back-up flotation. Any good thoughts on that idea?

Just a thought- My old Sonar had lots and lots of sealed empty milk bottles attached to the empty storage spaces below decks with a strong line (to keep them in place if the boat was sinking) If you could stuff enough of them in, they could keep the boat afloat, they're real cheap. Permant attachment is real important or they'll just float away when the boat is sinking. Ernie

 

[kpgraci]

I would think pool noodles would get expensive. What's the problem with foam blocks?

 

[Joe11688]

I'm rebuilding an O'Day 20 and looking for a better alternative for interior flotation than the styrafoam I found underneath the forward bearth. I don't want to break my bank using the two-part foam, and although I heard that Pool Noodles are a slighty better alternative than the styrafoam, I still haven't bought into that alternative. Suggestions PLEASE!

One other question too. My interior cushion wer rebuilt by a prior owner and they used open cell foam. I'd like to replace that foam with a closed cell variety for less mildew and as back-up flotation. Any good thoughts on that idea?

My 1986 O'Day 222 doesn't have any flotation whatsoever. Neither does the O'Day 192 and these boats have keel/centerboards. With that said, I don't expect my boat to sink and I'm not saying that it can't sink. Anything is possible I suppose. If I'm out in rough stormy weather in high seas, I'm going to have the hatches battened down and ride it out the best I can either with the outboard or reefed sails.
If I owned an O'Day 20 or a 22, I'd remove the flotation and gain some needed space. You may be able to seal off a space in the bow and the stern and make air tanks out these areas with a water tight access plate.

I think that flotation is very important in canoes, kayaks, open day sailers, and dingies. However, cabins in sailboats can be sealed, and a good self bailing system can work once the boat is righted. If not, just keep a bucket handy in the cockpit secure with a line to a cleat so you don't lose it overboard.
My boat has an 800 lbs keel. I don't think that any amount of flotation is going to keep her up if my cabin ever filled up with water.
I can only speak for myself and my needs in a small cruising sloop. I do a lot of overnighters on Mount Hope and Narragansett Bays and these waters have been known to kick up, but most of the time I can handle it if the need arises. Otherwise I'll find a safe cove to duck into.
I'm always looking to gain space on my boat for the gear that I carry and to me, stowage space on a boat as small as mine is very important.

Next season I plan on omitting the quarter birth mattresses that go under the cockpit. This probably doesn't seem much. After all, we're only talking about a space about 4" thick X 4' or 4.5' long on both sides of the inside of the cabin, but if you've ever tried to drag a heavy odds and ends container over a mattress, you'd know what I mean. If I remove these two mattress, I'll be able to stow my gear in those cubby holes, plus my extra 28 quart cooler and also have access to the two compartments under the settees that I haven't used in years. If I had flotation in those compartments, I wouldn't have room for my needed gear.
Joe

 

[emergpa1]

My 1986 O'Day 222 doesn't have any flotation whatsoever. Neither does the O'Day 192 and these boats have keel/centerboards. With that said, I don't expect my boat to sink and I'm not saying that it can't sink. Anything is possible I suppose. If I'm out in rough stormy weather in high seas, I'm going to have the hatches battened down and ride it out the best I can either with the outboard or reefed sails.
If I owned an O'Day 20 or a 22, I'd remove the flotation and gain some needed space. You may be able to seal off a space in the bow and the stern and make air tanks out these areas with a water tight access plate.

I think that flotation is very important in canoes, kayaks, open day sailers, and dingies. However, cabins in sailboats can be sealed, and a good self bailing system can work once the boat is righted. If not, just keep a bucket handy in the cockpit secure with a line to a cleat so you don't lose it overboard.
My boat has an 800 lbs keel. I don't think that any amount of flotation is going to keep her up if my cabin ever filled up with water.
I can only speak for myself and my needs in a small cruising sloop. I do a lot of overnighters on Mount Hope and Narragansett Bays and these waters have been known to kick up, but most of the time I can handle it if the need arises. Otherwise I'll find a safe cove to duck into.
I'm always looking to gain space on my boat for the gear that I carry and to me, stowage space on a boat as small as mine is very important.

Next season I plan on omitting the quarter birth mattresses that go under the cockpit. This probably doesn't seem much. After all, we're only talking about a space about 4" thick X 4' or 4.5' long on both sides of the inside of the cabin, but if you've ever tried to drag a heavy odds and ends container over a mattress, you'd know what I mean. If I remove these two mattress, I'll be able to stow my gear in those cubby holes, plus my extra 28 quart cooler and also have access to the two compartments under the settees that I haven't used in years. If I had flotation in those compartments, I wouldn't have room for my needed gear.
Joe

I think I see what u r getting at joe. If the boat weighs 2000 lbs, then to keep it floating when the cabin was filled with water u would have to have at least 2000 lbs of buoyancy. That would be hard to get from just filling stowage with foam or jugs wouldn't it?
Keith

 

[Sunbird22358]

Joe, I think the flotation in the larger (18-22' models) boats is more to guard agianst sinking if the hull were damaged and they took on water. Water seeks it's own level, so I doubt that your entire cabin volume would fill if adequate flotation were fitted, and enough air would be trapped inside to at least slow down the sinking long enough to be rescued in a coastal mishap.
O'DAY used to warn clearly in their sales literature that thay provide closeable cabins for just the resons you give, and smart sailors close the hatches in rough conditions. A capsize (not likely, but not impossible o na 222) is another cause for concern, however........ it that case I'd be more concerned about a cockpit locker opening and flooding hte boat than the cabin hatches. Boats like the O'DAY cruisers (192, 20, 22, 222, 23, 25, 26) will actually float high on their sides if knocked down, limiting flooding.

For coastal cruising (like on Mount Hope Bay or Narragansett Bay or Buzzards Bay) I too would go without flotation in a larger boat than my DS II to gain stowage room. But if I were sailing offshore at all (like to Bermuda?) I think I'd want some kind of flotation, even if it were an inflatable tube setup. Even my DS II, if not holed, could safely sail without flotation as originally built. HOWEVER, I REALLY like the comfort factor of having some styrofoam in my bilges, especially since I have several access hatches cut into the cuddy floor, and in a good rainstorm...... my bilge will flood.

Again, my personal choice........... I would not advocate others removing flotation without full consideration of their sailing risk level. Full flotation DOES create a built-in lifeboat if the hull were ever holed.

PS: Our old CAL 21 that we owned for 38 years did not have any flotation installed. Never worried about it, except when we developed a crack in the hull at the forward end of the trunk for the retractable keel. It was a bit disconcerting the time that I went aboard and found the floorboards in the cabin awash.... however, on that boat there was only about 3" between inside of hull and top of the floorboards. Still, it was a little unnerving until I bailed out the water and found that it didn't rise again noticably.

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Floatation

Joe, I think the flotation in the larger (18-22' models) boats is more to guard agianst sinking if the hull were damaged and they took on water. Water seeks it's own level, so I doubt that your entire cabin volume would fill if adequate flotation were fitted, and enough air would be trapped inside to at least slow down the sinking long enough to be rescued in a coastal mishap.
O'DAY used to warn clearly in their sales literature that thay provide closeable cabins for just the resons you give, and smart sailors close the hatches in rough conditions. A capsize (not likely, but not impossible o na 222) is another cause for concern, however........ it that case I'd be more concerned about a cockpit locker opening and flooding hte boat than the cabin hatches. Boats like the O'DAY cruisers (192, 20, 22, 222, 23, 25, 26) will actually float high on their sides if knocked down, limiting flooding.

For coastal cruising (like on Mount Hope Bay or Narragansett Bay or Buzzards Bay) I too would go without flotation in a larger boat than my DS II to gain stowage room. But if I were sailing offshore at all (like to Bermuda?) I think I'd want some kind of flotation, even if it were an inflatable tube setup. Even my DS II, if not holed, could safely sail without flotation as originally built. HOWEVER, I REALLY like the comfort factor of having some styrofoam in my bilges, especially since I have several access hatches cut into the cuddy floor, and in a good rainstorm...... my bilge will flood.

Again, my personal choice........... I would not advocate others removing flotation without full consideration of their sailing risk level. Full flotation DOES create a built-in lifeboat if the hull were ever holed.

PS: Our old CAL 21 that we owned for 38 years did not have any flotation installed. Never worried about it, except when we developed a crack in the hull at the forward end of the trunk for the retractable keel. It was a bit disconcerting the time that I went aboard and found the floorboards in the cabin awash.... however, on that boat there was only about 3" between inside of hull and top of the floorboards. Still, it was a little unnerving until I bailed out the water and found that it didn't rise again noticably.

- - - - // - - - -

Subject: flotation

Over the years since internet began there have been several good articles about flotation in small boats.

Several companies specifically advertize that their boats are not sinkable. Generally they are the small day use type boats but several do get into pocket cruisers.

See: http://www.rhodes22.com/contruction_detail.html and scroll down to flotation.

See: http://www.bostonwhaler.com/Page.aspx/pageId/46410/Why-Whaler.aspx - not sailboat but tells how it is unsinkable boat

See: http://www.etapyachting.com/index.html methods integral in construction but it is not only unsinkable production sailboat in world nor was it first. See: http://flyingscot.com/

Several companies glassed in styrofoam blocks in their hulls.

Object was to keep the boat from completel sinking and although filled with water, still somewhat floating. The main products that I know of are styrofoam blocks, marine flotaton foam and glassed in voids.

See: http://www.shopmaninc.com/faq_foam.html#17

And above all do not forget the reason why wood is and was used for boats. It floats! See: http://www.woodenboat.com/ Imagine that, a building material for boats that floats? Who would have thought about it?

So, someone needs to do current research and summarize hereon for the rest of us...

Ed K

 

[Joe11688]

I have no idea Keith. I'm just a simple man and perhaps a little simple minded at times. Old age don't sha know. The way I look at it is; if you know there's a hurricane coming your way, it would behoove you to take your boat out of the water. Two of our club members didn't do this, and their boats picked up the moorings during that hurricane we had, and went aground.
Also, if I'm out on the water and get caught in a squall, I'm going to prepare myself. I'll take the sails down and close up the cabin and ride it out at the helm with my rain gear on with the outboard running or I'll try to find a safe place to anchor and sit it out. I've done that a few times.
I'm not thinking to myself,--"Is my boat going to sink?" I have no lifeboat other than a 9' kayak and as far as I'm concerned, my boat is my life boat. I'm certainly not going to jump in my kayak and paddle away if trouble comes my way.
When I go out into the bay, I always try to have an alternative plan to fall back on just in case my original plans fails. This includes ports or refuge and "what ifs."

 

[Joe11688]

- - - - // - - - -

Subject: flotation

Over the years since internet began there have been several good articles about flotation in small boats.

Several companies specifically advertize that their boats are not sinkable. Generally they are the small day use type boats but several do get into pocket cruisers.

See: http://www.rhodes22.com/contruction_detail.html and scroll down to flotation.

See: http://www.bostonwhaler.com/Page.aspx/pageId/46410/Why-Whaler.aspx - not sailboat but tells how it is unsinkable boat

See: http://www.etapyachting.com/index.html methods integral in construction but it is not only unsinkable production sailboat in world nor was it first. See: http://flyingscot.com/

Several companies glassed in styrofoam blocks in their hulls.

Object was to keep the boat from completel sinking and although filled with water, still somewhat floating. The main products that I know of are styrofoam blocks, marine flotation foam and glassed in voids.

See: http://www.shopmaninc.com/faq_foam.html#17

And above all do not forget the reason why wood is and was used for boats. It floats! See: http://www.woodenboat.com/ Imagine that, a building material for boats that floats? Who would have thought about it?

So, someone needs to do current research and summarize hereon for the rest of us...

Ed K

I think that if I owned a Mac 26 with a water ballast, I'd want to keep the flotation in it, but an O'Day 222,--no.

 

[kpgraci]

If the boat weighs 2000 lbs, then to keep it floating when the cabin was filled with water u would have to have at least 2000 lbs of buoyancy. That would be hard to get from just filling stowage with foam or jugs wouldn't it?
Keith

Sea water weighs about 64lbs/cu ft, so that's 31 cubic feet for 2000#. Under cockpit is a pretty good size area, say 3' x 5' x 1', that's 15ft, under the v-berth seem like less space, maybe 8 cu ft? So we're up to 23 cu ft, need 7 more, trapped air will help.

I think the Oday 22 has enough factory flotation to rest just submerged, but not sink - that's a nice thought in my book. Unless I needed the space for a long trip, I'm leaving the flotation in.