Florida anchoring struggle heating up again
- Thread starter Roger Long
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So if they say Monroe county, does that mean you must take a mooring ball in the Keys or just where they have the mooring fields? The buffer zone could seriously make it hard where there is little good places for anchoring. We plan on doing a cruise to the Keys from Carabelle in June.
There is a problem in Florida and other places with the so called hulks and derelict boats staying on anchors and which are little more than floating dumpsters. I'm not unsympathetic with the municipalities desire to control this.
I just wonder if the tone of the cruisers has polarized the debate. Maybe the us against them tone started with the other side, or events have created the tone, but I don't see it as helpful.
I agree the MSD and safety issues are the way to move against the derelict boats. Do they methods of egress in case of fire, CO detectors, smoke alarms, propane gas detection systems etc.?
This problem exists in Block Island and at one time here in Greenport and in Cuthogue Harbor. Mostly my problem is pump out. It the boat is anchored for weeks at a time - well you figure it out.
I just wonder if the tone of the cruisers has polarized the debate. Maybe the us against them tone started with the other side, or events have created the tone, but I don't see it as helpful.
I agree the MSD and safety issues are the way to move against the derelict boats. Do they methods of egress in case of fire, CO detectors, smoke alarms, propane gas detection systems etc.?
This problem exists in Block Island and at one time here in Greenport and in Cuthogue Harbor. Mostly my problem is pump out. It the boat is anchored for weeks at a time - well you figure it out.
The intention of the impending statute ... is NO ANCHORING within 20 miles of any so approved 'mooring field'.
A sterling example would be such as what happened at Boot Key last winter when the winds and weather combined to 'overflow' the Marathon / Boot Key Mooring field, which left possibly a hundred or more boats with only anchoring choices. If the new law were so enacted that would FORCE those not able to obtain a mooring (all moorings were 'taken' by the end of Dec09) and force these boaters to endlessly search about for the 'next' mooring field or attempt a gulftream crossing at the EXACT WRONG time and in dangerous sea state conditions .... one would simply no longer dream of winning the lotto if one was 'forced out' and then became injured, etc. ... as no jury in the world would deny a 'magnificent' damage award + preposterous 'pain and suffering' award for that one if one were FORCED out and with the only alternative being a stiff fine. I havent been anywhere near Miami for many years because of this legal PIRACY and municipal THUGGERY.
One can only hope that Cuba is soon re-opened to US cruisers, so we can 'escape' the greedy and draconian measures being increasingly imposed in Florida.
"Welcome to Florida -- dont visit, just send your MONEY".
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It makes me wonder if the derelict boats are even registered. That alone should provide the LEO to condemn or remove the vessel.
The idiots ruin everything for the legit folks by abusing the system.
The idiots ruin everything for the legit folks by abusing the system.
Wow.....didn't we say somewhere that we have the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Kind of seems like they are hampering those rights of liberty to anchor where it is not going to damage anything or harm anyone else's rights.
It is a sad world that we live in where they are attempting to limit where people can exercise their rights. Who can own the bottom of the water or the water itself?
Too much government is oppressive. I sympathize with the communities that have issues with derelict boats.....but there are other ways to combat this instead of hurting the cruising sailors.
Sad world we live in.
It is a sad world that we live in where they are attempting to limit where people can exercise their rights. Who can own the bottom of the water or the water itself?
Too much government is oppressive. I sympathize with the communities that have issues with derelict boats.....but there are other ways to combat this instead of hurting the cruising sailors.
Sad world we live in.
Just how bad is it right now for anchoring? I figured I would never take the a boat to FL because of what I heard about the anchoring wars. Rumor up here was that the war was won so I've been thinking of going to Key West and a bit around the corner when I go south for the first time next fall. Looks like I'd better do that trip soon.
The battle was won. Anchoring was determined to be a right to cruising boats...except in mooring fields. So lets pave Florida with moorings.
This test mooring plan is only the beginning. Expect to see Miami/Miami Beach put in just enough moorings to block anchoring just about anywhere in S Florida.
No anchoring within 20 miles of a mooring field? Attribution please.
My Sister and her husband own a home on Lake Worth with a collection of the worst looking bunch of semi floating junk anchored directly between there rather expensive piece of property and the beautiful views of the ICW and the Lake most of the derelict flotsam have not moved in over a year.
The tax’s they pay should not have to be spent on cleaning up this mess and I’m sure even Policing the floating junk yard is costly. Crime in these floating communities’s is high toped by Alcohol and Drug related problems not to mention pilfering. My sister told me on more then one occasion they have had thefts and several times found some of the live aboard in their pool rinsing off after swimming to shore.
It’s like buying your dream home on a hill side and squatters shacks popping up all in the direction of the view that you bought the house for.
Once there was a Law on the books In Riviera Beach that stated you could only stay anchored in any one location for three or four days at a time. This seems like the most logical solution and one parking patrol boat to keep tabs could handle this
The tax’s they pay should not have to be spent on cleaning up this mess and I’m sure even Policing the floating junk yard is costly. Crime in these floating communities’s is high toped by Alcohol and Drug related problems not to mention pilfering. My sister told me on more then one occasion they have had thefts and several times found some of the live aboard in their pool rinsing off after swimming to shore.
It’s like buying your dream home on a hill side and squatters shacks popping up all in the direction of the view that you bought the house for.
Once there was a Law on the books In Riviera Beach that stated you could only stay anchored in any one location for three or four days at a time. This seems like the most logical solution and one parking patrol boat to keep tabs could handle this
We just got home from a 26 day cruise, couple of days in marinas for repairs/parts. Anchored out all the other nights. No problems whatsoever, even at Marco island Which was the site of a recent anchoring battle.
KW is another story. There are no good anchorages there. Even the "mooring field" is rough in a norther. Boot Key harbor at Marathon was fullup and the anchorage outside boot key harbor is rough in a norther, but there was plenty of room.
Miles and miles of the AICW is ditch, no water to anchor, but it has always been ditch, no place to anchor.
I second what Bill said. Here in Punta Gorda there has been a boat anchored just off the main waterfront park for at least six months. Every few days the police remind him to move and reanchor, and he does. I have anchored all over southwest Florida and never had a problem but have never stayed more than 3 or 4 days. Maybe if law enforcement could have boats move around every few days it would help ease the problem of abandoned boats. But that costs money small cities don't have.
After a major hurricane we had dozens of abandoned and sucken boats in the canals and waterfront. The $$ to remove these boats came slowly and it took several years to finish the clean up. Removal "abandoned" boats is a complicated process and expensive for small communities. Look how long it takes a marina to get rid of abandoned boats. Sometimes years.
After a major hurricane we had dozens of abandoned and sucken boats in the canals and waterfront. The $$ to remove these boats came slowly and it took several years to finish the clean up. Removal "abandoned" boats is a complicated process and expensive for small communities. Look how long it takes a marina to get rid of abandoned boats. Sometimes years.
Too bad there isn't a out-of-state sticker you could get so that you could anchor for a short time in these zones. I'm sure the economic benifit would compensate for the mooring fee. We usually get a mooring ball and have noted the marinas that have the lowest fees. Plus if the field was full, they should allow the anchoring outside the zone.
To get rid of the derelict flotsam, communities should use the annual registrations and safety inspections to prove that the craft is seaworthy. Just like the two-hour parking downtown, once they "chalk the tires", you gotta move. Can't move, you get pulled. Otherwise I can avoid the area.
All U Get
Follow the money
Rich H – Could you please reference where you get the “no anchoring within 20 miles” thing? So that would mean that a mooring field in St. Petersburg would eliminate all anchoring in and around Tampa Bay and parts of surrounding counties? Really?
Roger – IMHO the anchoring situation in Florida is generally good. I do NOT speak for everyone but I’ve been anchoring all along the West Coast of Florida for the past 10 years and have never had a problem. There are a few hot spots so I’m not dismissing the issue but surely with hundreds of miles of coastline and thousands of anchoring possibilities we can fit you in somewhere. Come on down. If you get near St. Pete I’d love to meet you.
I think mooring fields are generally a good idea. They allow a higher density of usage of popular anchoring sites. Especially for those boaters who don’t really know how anchors work. The “buffer zone” could certainly be an issue but that’s what public hearings are for. I hate to take issue with Rich (because he’s way smarter than me) but I just wonder about his citing Boot Key. I imagine no moorings, semi-sunken derelicts, poorly anchored and dragging boats on top of each other with more on the way to escape weather. That doesn’t sound like an improvement to me. The liveaboards there have been in print declaring that they’ve generally had a good relationship with that municipality. There certainly were (and may still be) problems but they seem to be working together to solve them.
I like Claiborne. I use his guides. Unfortunately, as Shemandr points out, his verbage, while raising good points and well meaning, is indeed polarizing the debate.
I’ve heard rumors that there would be a mooring field installed in the Vinoy Basin here in St. Pete. I’d love to see it. It would be the perfect place. The holding there is not good and in the past several years it’s become a parking lot for abandoned and unloved boats. There has been no change there.
I’ve also followed the difficulties Sarasota has had in installing a mooring field adjacent to Marina Jack’s. It still hasn’t happened.
I’ll only comment on these because I live across the street from one and have been to the other frequently. I note that Claiborne’s article and the links he provides do not specify where the fields should go other than to name general municipalities.
Finally, I notice that nobody has discussed the real issue as to why derelict boats don’t get cleaned up and the owners cited and why the Sarasota field isn’t yet installed. More laws won’t do it. Apparently, nobody wants to (or can) pay for it. Unless the state or federal government are willing to foot the bill I doubt it’ll happen in our lifetime.
In the meantime, I guess the sky could be falling.
Rich H – Could you please reference where you get the “no anchoring within 20 miles” thing? So that would mean that a mooring field in St. Petersburg would eliminate all anchoring in and around Tampa Bay and parts of surrounding counties? Really?
Roger – IMHO the anchoring situation in Florida is generally good. I do NOT speak for everyone but I’ve been anchoring all along the West Coast of Florida for the past 10 years and have never had a problem. There are a few hot spots so I’m not dismissing the issue but surely with hundreds of miles of coastline and thousands of anchoring possibilities we can fit you in somewhere. Come on down. If you get near St. Pete I’d love to meet you.
I think mooring fields are generally a good idea. They allow a higher density of usage of popular anchoring sites. Especially for those boaters who don’t really know how anchors work. The “buffer zone” could certainly be an issue but that’s what public hearings are for. I hate to take issue with Rich (because he’s way smarter than me) but I just wonder about his citing Boot Key. I imagine no moorings, semi-sunken derelicts, poorly anchored and dragging boats on top of each other with more on the way to escape weather. That doesn’t sound like an improvement to me. The liveaboards there have been in print declaring that they’ve generally had a good relationship with that municipality. There certainly were (and may still be) problems but they seem to be working together to solve them.
I like Claiborne. I use his guides. Unfortunately, as Shemandr points out, his verbage, while raising good points and well meaning, is indeed polarizing the debate.
I’ve heard rumors that there would be a mooring field installed in the Vinoy Basin here in St. Pete. I’d love to see it. It would be the perfect place. The holding there is not good and in the past several years it’s become a parking lot for abandoned and unloved boats. There has been no change there.
I’ve also followed the difficulties Sarasota has had in installing a mooring field adjacent to Marina Jack’s. It still hasn’t happened.
I’ll only comment on these because I live across the street from one and have been to the other frequently. I note that Claiborne’s article and the links he provides do not specify where the fields should go other than to name general municipalities.
Finally, I notice that nobody has discussed the real issue as to why derelict boats don’t get cleaned up and the owners cited and why the Sarasota field isn’t yet installed. More laws won’t do it. Apparently, nobody wants to (or can) pay for it. Unless the state or federal government are willing to foot the bill I doubt it’ll happen in our lifetime.
In the meantime, I guess the sky could be falling.
The derelicts are a big problem. They did cause most of this. But legitimate cruisers with well maintained boats are getting lumped in with the derelicts because the locals are too lazy to effectively deal with the derelicts and boat bums. The easy course of action is to fashion some sort of anchoring restriction. The time limit restriction was deemed against the law but not the mooring field restriction. So here we are.
I suspect Lake Worth & Miami Beach will get mooring fields soon.
Congratulations to the boat bums & derelict owners for ruining a good thing.
I suspect Lake Worth & Miami Beach will get mooring fields soon.
Congratulations to the boat bums & derelict owners for ruining a good thing.
The prime boaters interest forum on this these matters seems to be originating with the "Cruisers' Net". http://cruisersnet.net/51696/
I think that the 20 mile distance 'may' have come from an offered opinion on these forums ... in rechecking I cant find officialdom's specific comments in this regard and may have wrongly quoted. The fact remains however that the key to these mooring fields (good or bad) will depend on the geometric size of the required "no anchoring buffer zones" that are provided by the new anchoring laws.
I think that the 20 mile distance 'may' have come from an offered opinion on these forums ... in rechecking I cant find officialdom's specific comments in this regard and may have wrongly quoted. The fact remains however that the key to these mooring fields (good or bad) will depend on the geometric size of the required "no anchoring buffer zones" that are provided by the new anchoring laws.
I'll discuss it. Government at its best.
Problem response:
1) Create expense and inconvenience for the people who are part of the system but not part of the problem.
2) Create a slight increase in income for businesses most involved with the problem solving process.
3) Depress overall state visitation and revenue via step one.
4) Do nothing about the original problem
I'll bet the derelict boat problem will be exactly as it is now when this is all over. I do mean "government at its best". I cheer when governments can rise to this level of competence.
Rick has it right. Thanks.
We live in Sarasota and anchor out everywhere up and down the Fl west coast from tarpon Springs to Marco Island with no police incidents in over 20yrs. Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe we're usually just passing through. Our boat's not a dreg where we annoy land owners with our trash or bad attitudes. Nor do we set the hook and take up residence for weeks/months/yes...years like is sadly happening to our own waterfront anchorage zone.
That said Sarasotas well intentioned attempt at a mooring field was mired in committee, politics and poor contractors until a million dollars was spent/wasted and still no moorings. Our upscale town has always been a boating destination but, like most Fl waterfront towns it's not the most accommodating to long term derelict live aboards, most of which are camping right in the eye of our downtown zone with no pumpout boat or viable moorings. Each storm brings more derelict boats ashore or sunk in place. Crime in the anchorage field keeps our boat out and I've lived here all my life. This issue isn't about cruisers it's about waterfront camp grounds sprinkled with real junk.
I don't know the answer but don't paint the whole state as uninviting with overly dramatic rhetoric. We're just trying to deal with the humanity of a few live aboards who can't find the means or don't have the skills to do much else beside scrape by with the little they have. It's a complicated mess that unfortunately raises issues that incorrectly reflect on all boaters by frustrated landowners who mostly feel hamstrung in a vortex of marine law inconsistency.
A well designed/managed, reasonably priced, welcoming mooring field will be needed in every bayfront town eventually or their field will become a mis-mash shanty town mixed with legitimate cruisers and local boat owners who will be unjustly persecuted as one lot by the frustrated land owners who can't find anyone to consistently enforce existing laws.
Now calm down and lets just go sailing in Fl. There's much more up the west coast than mooring fields and it's more inviting than the Keys...really.
Mike and kelli
We live in Sarasota and anchor out everywhere up and down the Fl west coast from tarpon Springs to Marco Island with no police incidents in over 20yrs. Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe we're usually just passing through. Our boat's not a dreg where we annoy land owners with our trash or bad attitudes. Nor do we set the hook and take up residence for weeks/months/yes...years like is sadly happening to our own waterfront anchorage zone.
That said Sarasotas well intentioned attempt at a mooring field was mired in committee, politics and poor contractors until a million dollars was spent/wasted and still no moorings. Our upscale town has always been a boating destination but, like most Fl waterfront towns it's not the most accommodating to long term derelict live aboards, most of which are camping right in the eye of our downtown zone with no pumpout boat or viable moorings. Each storm brings more derelict boats ashore or sunk in place. Crime in the anchorage field keeps our boat out and I've lived here all my life. This issue isn't about cruisers it's about waterfront camp grounds sprinkled with real junk.
I don't know the answer but don't paint the whole state as uninviting with overly dramatic rhetoric. We're just trying to deal with the humanity of a few live aboards who can't find the means or don't have the skills to do much else beside scrape by with the little they have. It's a complicated mess that unfortunately raises issues that incorrectly reflect on all boaters by frustrated landowners who mostly feel hamstrung in a vortex of marine law inconsistency.
A well designed/managed, reasonably priced, welcoming mooring field will be needed in every bayfront town eventually or their field will become a mis-mash shanty town mixed with legitimate cruisers and local boat owners who will be unjustly persecuted as one lot by the frustrated land owners who can't find anyone to consistently enforce existing laws.
Now calm down and lets just go sailing in Fl. There's much more up the west coast than mooring fields and it's more inviting than the Keys...really.
Mike and kelli
I can reduce your statements to a more elemental level ----
---- the "purpose" of citizens in the USA is simply redefined as a target 'prey species' for 'governments'.
---- The definition of government has apparently changed to be "those who receive the greatest amount campaign contribution"
THEREFORE ... the 'special interests' (probably land developers in the case of anchoring issues in FL) have become the preeminent and controlling 'oligarchy' as regards 'anchoring'.
Reducing this even to a more fundamental level - MONEY talks in any CORRUPTABLE system.
You can BET YOU A$$, that the 'developers' are the leading force behind this, they have the lobbyists and $$$ to see that this is enacted. Developers (Home Builders Lobby) are usually the second MOST powerful and government controlling lobby in any state, ... after the NEA/NFT).
Politicians only need 'citizens' one day every 4 years, they need $$$$ every minute of the day, and especially before election day .... but of course only incidentally need citizens as an opportunistic for revenue 'prey species' during non-election periods.
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