Flags

[AtlanticAl]

First time i sailed in the USA, i had bought a Grampian sailboat, and was coming back and forward from the UK to sail her, i didnt have residency, i was working in the uk but got a lot of time off, and in my time off, i would come over here and sail. Anyway, i brought my own scottish flag with me, not the standard scottish flag, but the rebel scottish flag, the standard scottish flag, being the St Andrews cross, a white cross on a blue background, but the rebel scottish flag, is a red lion, on a yellow background, so i always had the flag with me, but never put it up, while sailing in florida, I just had the stars and stripes, as everyone did, then some new zeland guy sailed with me, and i told him i always carried my own flag so he said, "well why dont you put it up" so that night i did, i took down, the stars and stipes, and put up the scottish flag, while the boat was still us registered, that flag stayed up until i sold the boat, and no one ever questioned it, and even when i sold it, the people i sold it to, didnt ask about the flag, and they took posesion, with it flying that flag.

Now i live here, and i have another scottish flag, can i fly that, or do i legaly have to fly the stars and stripes, I kind of like to be different, and i love the usa, i see it as my home, but just to be different, can i legally fly that flag.

 

[Bad Obsession]

There are tons of people on here with a lot of knowledge on flag etiquette. The place where you are from and the boat is registered, I believe, goes on the stern of the boat. The flag off of the spreader would be a courtesy flag of the nation you are visiting.

I think that is right. All of this being said, I fly the US flag off of my stern and, sometimes, a jolly roger from my starboard spreader.

 

[Joe]

Now i live here, and i have another scottish flag, can i fly that, or do i legaly have to fly the stars and stripes, I kind of like to be different, and i love the usa, i see it as my home, but just to be different, can i legally fly that flag.

Legally? I don't think a recreation craft would be cited for improper flag etiquette.... however....since you actually seem to care about this... as opposed the buffoons hoisting martini flags on the stern... I suggest you might fly your Scottish flag BELOW the US flag on the same staff, or from the leech of the aftermost sail. This would identify the vessel as and american registered boat, but also indicate the nationality of the owner.
And you wouldn't be offending the US national ensign... and people like me.... 'cause I take it pretty seriously... and I'm not even a republican.

An example of this reasoning is the custom of hoisting courtesy flags of the nation you are visiting on the spreader flag halyard, and below it hoisting a distinctive regional or state flag to honor the locals..... the french tri color over the regional flag of Brittany, for instance. Or say a visiting canadian yacht hoists a usa courtesy flag with a california flag just below. See what i mean.

 

[RichH]

Putting one national flag below another national flag on the same staff/hoist means .... that the boat has been captured and is being taken to a neutral port to be sold as a prize of war.
So, if you do do this please be sure that youre able to serve buttered scones with clotted cream and a choice single malt to mollify the wholly perplexed and confused boarding officers, etc.

If the boat is not 'documented' requiring a national flag/ensign to designate the 'boats citizenship' (documented boats are automatically placed in a nation's 'reserve fleet' status and can be called into service or commandeered for a national emergency, etc.), fly your flag anywhere you want ... as virtually noone in the US will have any idea. A good place to fly such a flag, and in line with normal accepted (and mostly unknown in the US) etiquette, is on a jackstaff/pigstick at the mast head ... as an 'owners flag'.

 

[Argyle38]

If your boat is documented, then you should have the national ensign flying from a stern staff or the back-stay. In most countries, including the US, the national ensign is simply the national flag. This is actually part of the law and if you don't have state registration numbers on your hull, indicating a national documentation, then the flag is part of what is used to identify your vessel. Having something other than the US flag flown from the stern staff might get you some, albeit minor, unwanted attention by patrol vessels trying to figure out who you are, especially if you are in waters frequented by foreign boats.

The starboard spreader is where courtesy flags are flown. When you visit another country, this is where the quarantine flag is flown, followed by the ensign of that country, once you are cleared in. In some countries, flying this flag is the law. As mentioned above, it's also common to fly state or provincial flags below national ensigns from the starboard spreader. In the US, it's common to see state flags flying here.

The place for a private signal has traditionally been from a staff at the masthead. Most sailboats these days have too much stuff at the masthead to make this practical.

The next position down the line is the port spreader. You can fly pretty much anything you want from this position as long as it's not a flag that really belongs at the stern or starboard spreader. My avatar is similar to the coat of arms of the Duke of Argyll and Lord of the Western Isles. I have an identical flag made up, which I fly from the port spreader, as a private signal.

So, if your boat is documented, I would fly the national ensign from the stern and fly Royal Scots flag from the port spreader. If it isn't documented, you can really do anything you want. You could very well fly the Scots flag from the stern, but I would then fly the US ensign from the starboard spreader. This would mimic the setup of a boat visiting from Scotland, albeit with an unofficial Scottish flag.

I've never heard "Lion Rampant" flag be considered a Scottish Rebel flag. This is the standard of the Scottish Monarch and is incorporated in to the royal standard of the Queen. Is it considered a Jacobite flag, since it is by itself?

 

[Steve Dion]

Flags - registration and flag stuff

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#11

http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/etiquett.html

 

[ifmdalvey]

Al
I am also from Scotland but always fly the stars and stripes from the stern, the boat is US registered and therefore thats the correct flag to fly.
If you were to fly a flag from the stern then the Lion Rampant is incorrect. You should be flying the red duster, for civilian use that is the only correct British flag.
From the spreader you can fly whatever you wish, i have a Saint Andrews burgee and a red duster to let boaters know my origin.

 

[Joe]

Putting one national flag below another national flag on the same staff/hoist means .... that the boat has been captured and is being taken to a neutral port to be sold as a prize of war.
.

Heh, heh.... well that actually might descripe Al's status. However, I'm not sure if recreational vessels would fit into that profile. At least in US waters, where the taking of prizes is not authorizd by our goverment. And besides you would have to be at war with the subserviant flag's country and have a letter of marque from your own to take a prize ..... We are not at war with Scotland and the US no longer issues letters of marque... so you see... it's, uh, complicated.

Since he previously flew his own flag over a US registered Grampion without issue, I don't think it makes a lot of difference what he does....... as long as his flag is subserviant to any US flag he flies on his boat.....

That said, and after reading all the other posts, I think the spreader flag halyard is the best choice.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

The big problem with flying personal flags is when one uses it to replace the US (or formal port of registry) flag and then returns from international waters. According to ancient and still-active maritime law, it is the privilege and right of any legally-registered vessel to hail a questionable flag and request ID and intentions. Not receiving appropriate information, that vessel has the right (and, some would say, duty) to seize the other as an unflagged vessel or a pirate. So in these times since 9/11, novelty and cute faux-pirate flags are looked upon as something not quite funny any more.

Having worked at West Marine along the NJ shore I have heard stories of guys going out for a day of fishing and returning in their center-console boats flying nothing but the black Jolly Roger and being hailed, stopped and boarded by suspicious authorities even including the CGA and USPS.

Yes; we might say this is overkill by overzealous narrowminded nitwits. But to not raise this question would be to admit a gap in security. Sure; a terrorist could easily buy a US flag at Walmart and avoid all scrutiny. But by strict rules of maritime law, flying anything but an officially-recognized flag, and not having matching paperwork, in international waters or near national boundaries could be much more trouble that one thought this little in-joke would be worth.

That said I have my own flag(s) too

 

[Lake Superior Sailor]

On a sloop an American flag is to be flown at the stern pole in port, But the proper place to fly the American flag under sail is 3/4 up off back of main sail. A burgee is flown at mast head.......Dale

 

[Joe]

On a sloop an American flag is to be flown at the stern pole in port, But the proper place to fly the American flag under sail is 3/4 up off back of main sail. A burgee is flown at mast head.......Dale

That's an interpretation on the place of honor for a gaff rigged vessel, called the "peak of the gaff", it is the furthest point aft on the aftermost sail. On a three masted vessel, the gaff rigged sail on the mizzen mast, often called the "spanker" would serve as place of honor.

A halyard can be easily attached to the peak of the gaff so the flag can be lowered at night.....and because of this, it is entirely inconvenient to attach a flag to the leech of a sloop's mainsail. You could fly it from the backstay on a separage halyard, though... that's what I do... and I leave it that way at the dock when I'm present.... but it is perfectly proper to fly it from the stern on a staff while sailing... as most people do.

No matter where you fly it, from the backstay or at the stern, the flag should never be left up at night, unless it is on lighted display... so that means when you leave the boat... take down the flag.

 

[Stu Jackson]

We have our US ensign fly off the backstay. It turns out to be a GREAT wind indicator, especially when sailing downwind! In addition, I see a lot, if not most of folks using short flagpoles so the flag gets blown back into their cockpits or laying against the pushpit rails.

I always use the starboard spreader for other burgees, like class flags, the SBO flag D).

As a result of the horrible situation in Somalia, I find any pirate flags offensive.

 

[cephius (Dave)]

In my sailing grounds/usage I never sail at night. Having the US Ensign sewn into the roach of the main works very well for me. Goes up when sailing, comes down in-port.

It also seems to stay brighter than flags exposed to weather all the time. I'm a stickler about the condition of my US Ensigns.

 

[sinnettc]

We have our US ensign fly off the backstay.

How do you have it rigged? I'd like to rig a halyard for mine but my backstay splits about 5' above the transom and I can't quite figure out how to do it.