Has anyone ever seen an American flag that is sewn on a radar reflective liner? I saw one online somewhere and thought it might be a good idea. Any thoughts?
Flag
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I have one
I bought one last year. It works quite well. I usually fly it off the stern, but in very poor visibilty, I run it up the burgee halyard.
I bought one last year. It works quite well. I usually fly it off the stern, but in very poor visibilty, I run it up the burgee halyard.
Independent Tests
prove Radar Flag makes no detectable difference. WM report of 1955. Jim Corenman, Chuck Hawley, Dick Honey and Stan "The Radar Flag is a fabric U.S. flag measuring about 20" x 11.5". Sewn inside the fabric is a metallic cloth which has reflective properties. The flag is intended to be flown on a conventional staff at the stern of a boat, to be allowed to flap like a normal flag. Construction is nylon, with heavy sewing for reinforcement. The Radar Flag reflects satisfactorily at 0° heel when flat, but in the draped position in which it would be used on a staff, it is practically invisible, giving an average return of just 4 ducks".
prove Radar Flag makes no detectable difference. WM report of 1955. Jim Corenman, Chuck Hawley, Dick Honey and Stan "The Radar Flag is a fabric U.S. flag measuring about 20" x 11.5". Sewn inside the fabric is a metallic cloth which has reflective properties. The flag is intended to be flown on a conventional staff at the stern of a boat, to be allowed to flap like a normal flag. Construction is nylon, with heavy sewing for reinforcement. The Radar Flag reflects satisfactorily at 0° heel when flat, but in the draped position in which it would be used on a staff, it is practically invisible, giving an average return of just 4 ducks".
West Marine is Self Serving
West Marine is very self serving. I used to work there. I know Chuck Hawley. I can guarantee you that if West Marine sold these things they would find lost of good things to say. The manufacturer probably would not give them a 50% margin on the item. It's kind of like telling General Motors they get to be in charge of product and safety testing for cars.
West Marine is very self serving. I used to work there. I know Chuck Hawley. I can guarantee you that if West Marine sold these things they would find lost of good things to say. The manufacturer probably would not give them a 50% margin on the item. It's kind of like telling General Motors they get to be in charge of product and safety testing for cars.
Not independant testing
West Marine is very self serving. I used to work there. I know Chuck Hawley. I can guarantee you that if West Marine sold these things they would find lots of good things to say. The manufacturer probably would not give them a 50% margin on the item. It's kind of like telling General Motors they get to be in charge of product and safety testing for cars.
West Marine is very self serving. I used to work there. I know Chuck Hawley. I can guarantee you that if West Marine sold these things they would find lots of good things to say. The manufacturer probably would not give them a 50% margin on the item. It's kind of like telling General Motors they get to be in charge of product and safety testing for cars.
Independent?
Boater may be right, however WM only supplied the samples (inc Radar Flag). The work was done by SRI in Menlo Park. I don't think the other august gents would have put their names to a pack of lies. This Technical Report has become the standard work on reflectors. A later report was done in 2003 for IMO by German and British test houses but it is still classified "Commercially Secure":- Quote from SRi/WM Technical report:- "Thanks to the generous cooperation of SRI International, in Menlo Park, CA, we had an opportunity to find the answer to that question. West Marine provided samples of 10 commercially available radar reflectors, which were tested in SRI’s large radar test chamber, normally used for testing such things as satellite antennas and stealth bombers. Participating In the tests were Eldon Fernandes, the operator of the range and an employee of SRI; Dick Honey, a Sr. Principal Scientist at SRI; Stan Honey, Vice President of Technology for News Corporation and a former Research Engineer at SRI; Chuck Hawley, Technical Director for West Marine; and Jim Corenman, Sailor at Large."
Boater may be right, however WM only supplied the samples (inc Radar Flag). The work was done by SRI in Menlo Park. I don't think the other august gents would have put their names to a pack of lies. This Technical Report has become the standard work on reflectors. A later report was done in 2003 for IMO by German and British test houses but it is still classified "Commercially Secure":- Quote from SRi/WM Technical report:- "Thanks to the generous cooperation of SRI International, in Menlo Park, CA, we had an opportunity to find the answer to that question. West Marine provided samples of 10 commercially available radar reflectors, which were tested in SRI’s large radar test chamber, normally used for testing such things as satellite antennas and stealth bombers. Participating In the tests were Eldon Fernandes, the operator of the range and an employee of SRI; Dick Honey, a Sr. Principal Scientist at SRI; Stan Honey, Vice President of Technology for News Corporation and a former Research Engineer at SRI; Chuck Hawley, Technical Director for West Marine; and Jim Corenman, Sailor at Large."
Reality Radar
Radar reflectors that work are important safety equipment. U.S.Sailing seems to think the 1995 report is valid, and shows it on their website. (Search for radar reflector tests.) It is amazing to see how poorly some well-marketed (and expensive) reflectors actually perform when subjected to a radar beam. The results seem to indicate that one of the best reflectors is the larger round interlocked-plate model, especially when hoisted so one of its pockets, when set up, would "catch rain". Many so-called reflectors returned no significant signal greater than the boat by itself. All were impacted by angle of heel, motion, height, and size of the reflector. The flag probably works great--- as a flag. We have a separate radar reflector that we deploy when conditions warrant it.
Radar reflectors that work are important safety equipment. U.S.Sailing seems to think the 1995 report is valid, and shows it on their website. (Search for radar reflector tests.) It is amazing to see how poorly some well-marketed (and expensive) reflectors actually perform when subjected to a radar beam. The results seem to indicate that one of the best reflectors is the larger round interlocked-plate model, especially when hoisted so one of its pockets, when set up, would "catch rain". Many so-called reflectors returned no significant signal greater than the boat by itself. All were impacted by angle of heel, motion, height, and size of the reflector. The flag probably works great--- as a flag. We have a separate radar reflector that we deploy when conditions warrant it.
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