Flag Etiquette II

Jul 27, 2011
5,134
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
To avoid high-jacking another thread where this got started this morning, I continue it here for anyone interested in the discussion.

The Canadian Power Squadron has a good way of putting it.

There is an “order” to prominence (with the very important caution specified in the next paragraph). The points of honor in descending order, are as follows:

• gaff (on a vessel or shore mast equipped with one)
• flagstaff at the stern (I believe this means centerline of the stern)
• bow staff
• starboard spreader (halyard)
• truck of the mast (masthead)
• port spreader (halyard)
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
The original quote is all true. But you're read something into this that it does not say.

Flagstaff at the stern. Done.
 
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Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
The Canadian Power Squadron has a good way of putting it.
Canadian Power Squadron? If you have the U.S. ensign flying from your spreader halyard you better be a Canadian visiting U.S. waters! Where they fly their Maple Leaf is of no concern to an American. American sailboaters have 3 choices for the national ensign - 2/3 the mainsail leech, center stern, starboard stern. And get a big one.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Honestly.

There is nothing in any of the protocols that mandate it to be mounted on the centerline or starboard. Starboard is recommended if possible but according to the Commodore of the local power squadron, it’s not anywhere near a requirement. He says anywhere on the transom is fine. Full stop.
 
Jun 5, 2010
1,123
Hunter 25 Burlington NJ
In general, there are couple of 'hard-and-fast' guidelines for flying a US 50-star as yacht ensign.
1. The US flag always flies with the stripes end in free, clear area. Never fetter the stripes end. Hang it vertically from the stars end or fly it horizontally from the stars end. Any obstacle with which the stripes end could come into contact has to be avoided by the set of the flag. At the masthead of a gaff-rigged vessel, the flag, in theory, could tangle with the gaff; therefore, the clearest place is at the gaff. This carries to flagpoles as well.
2. Regarding the flag as being viewed from the port side of the boat, fly no flags further astern (see rule above). The US flag always flies in the freest air; that means others go forward (to its left) and below it. In theory if a loosened halyard from some other flag could droop and tangle it, the US 50-star is not high enough or the other one is too close or low. Also, counter wind (blowing from other than the flag's own left) doesn't count; but consider it anyway.
3. On modern yachts with no gaff, fly the flag where the gaff would be if your sternmost mast had a gaff. This usually means about 2/3 to 3/4 up the backstay. You can put a stopper ball on the halyard to stop it there. This is not considered 'half mast'; this is considered proper (same height as where the gaff would be). It is not improper to have a personal ensign at the masthead (above it) as the personal flag cannot possibly foul the US 50-star from there. Below, the yacht's own ensign may fly at the taffrail (this really means only the 13-star fouled-anchor flag, which otherwise is falling out of favor with US boats traveling offshore.
4. The US 50-star is made visible for the longest period-- goes up first, gets struck last. Make it easy to respect that.

Most of this is, at least in gist, is verifiable in Rousmaniere's book(s). A lot of it renders the pre-2000s etiquette sort of obsolete.

One more thing, while I am at it:
Pirate flags have no place on seagoing yachts. The black crossed-bones or crossed-swords flags essentially mean, 'Flag? We don't need no stinking flag!' and constitute, under international rules, a non-flagged vessel, subject to boarding and seizure by any vessel flying a recognized flag. Read the story of Paul Watson to see real-world (legal if a bit unexpected) implications. Here in NJ after 9/11 we had stories of people (sportfishermen mostly) coming in from 12+ miles out flying just pirate flags and getting stopped by the CG and other concerned mariners. Without exception (the stories I heard personally) they all argued rudely about it-- not the best tactic when HSA is looking for militant illegals. Pirates aren't cool or funny in the real world. They are the bad guys. We responsible yachtsmen are cooler and better than that. Don't emulate the losers.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,134
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Canadian Power Squadron? If you have the U.S. ensign flying from your spreader halyard you better be a Canadian visiting U.S. waters! Where they fly their Maple Leaf is of no concern to an American. American sailboaters have 3 choices for the national ensign - 2/3 the mainsail leech, center stern, starboard stern. And get a big one.
What I meant was, the CPS has a good description of the hierarchy of the prominence of locations on the yacht.
 
Feb 20, 2011
8,048
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Here in NJ after 9/11 we had stories of people (sportfishermen mostly) coming in from 12+ miles out flying just pirate flags and getting stopped by the CG and other concerned mariners.
At that time and in that place, any vessel unless known to local authorities would get stopped when coming out of nowhere.
Whatever flag you might have.
 

pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
One more thing, while I am at it:
Pirate flags have no place on seagoing yachts. The black crossed-bones or crossed-swords flags essentially mean, 'Flag? We don't need no stinking flag!' and constitute, under international rules, a non-flagged vessel, subject to boarding and seizure by any vessel flying a recognized flag.
Not even a Skull and cocktails?

Skull and Cocktails 2.jpg
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,134
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Honestly.

There is nothing in any of the protocols that mandate it to be mounted on the centerline or starboard. Starboard is recommended if possible but according to the Commodore of the local power squadron, it’s not anywhere near a requirement. He says anywhere on the transom is fine. Full stop.
I think we've all agreed, at least I have, that it is not a "requirement"; not like requiring flares or PFDs. Moreover, yes, one can put the flag staff anywhere on the stern or transom w/o any "consequences", not even dirty looks, etc., and most of the time, even nearly all of time, nobody will notice or care. If the PS w/ all of its prestige doesn't really give hoot where it goes, then why should anybody else inconvenienced by having to work around something on the stern that a flag staff would interfere with? I suppose you could even stick in the tail pipe and blow exhaust over Old Glory, and that might be defended as free speech these days. Well, if there is no real "requirement" where it goes, then why can't it go there?
 
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pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
I suppose you could even stick in the tail pipe and blow exhaust over Old Glory, and that might be defended as free speech these days.
Tailpipe is on the starboard side, maybe that is why flag is to port. LOL
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I think we've all agreed, at least I have, that it is not a "requirement"; not like requiring flares or PFDs. Moreover, yes, one can put the flag staff anywhere on the stern or transom w/o any "consequences", not even dirty looks, etc., and most of the time, even nearly all of time, nobody will notice or care. If the PS w/ all of its prestige doesn't really give hoot where it goes, then why should anybody else inconvenienced by having something else on the stern that a flag staff would interfere with? I suppose you could even stick in the tail pipe and blow exhaust over Old Glory, and that might be defended as free speech these days. Well, if there is no real "requirement" where it goes, then why can't it go there?
KG, you take ANY argument to it's illogical extreme and it sounds like the point you are trying to make.

We all know that in many cases starboard is more 'prestigious' than port. But that flies in the face of the realities of boat design, where other design issues force the hand of the position of the ensign mounting. This point is to allow people of all boats to be able to fly them (off the transom) without worry of ridicule. The other option would be for them to not fly them at all, which is ridiculous and a shame.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,158
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Since the "where" issue seems pretty well settled..... how about discussing the " when" .... When is proper etiquette for displaying the national ensign on your boat?
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Since the "where" issue seems pretty well settled..... how about discussing the " when" .... When is proper etiquette for displaying the national ensign on your boat?
When on board, underway and during daylight hours. When you tie up you take it down.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Tailpipe is on the starboard side, maybe that is why flag is to port. LOL
My understanding is that the exhaust on auxiliaries and power boats was traditionally on the port side, and that's why the flag was to starboard. The important point is that the flag is on the side that the exhaust is not!
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Since the "where" issue seems pretty well settled..... how about discussing the " when" .... When is proper etiquette for displaying the national ensign on your boat?
When on board, underway and during daylight hours. When you tie up you take it down.
Colors made at 8am local, struck at sundown. Underway or at anchor. Same deal at the YC arm.
 
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Sep 14, 2014
1,278
Catalina 22 Pensacola, Florida
Really old seagoing protocol, he with the biggest cannon gets to fly his flags wherever he wants. LOL
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,936
O'Day Mariner 19 Littleton, NH
For US registered boats (flags are part of the boat, not the owner, so fly the flag appropriate to the boat's registration).
Where to wear the 50-Star: in the most prominent position at the stern as boat configuration and design allow. The end of the gaff if rigged worn one, the backstay, sail leech, transom staff, superstructure, or a halyard rigged aft of midship if other better options aren't possible. Starboard is traditionally more prominent than port, but not required.
When to wear the 50-Star: 08:00 to sunset. When leaving or entering a US or foreign port, day or night. Strike the flag if leaving your boat for the day or longer. Strike the flag in bad weather.

Here is a link to the US Power Squadron's flag etiquette page. http://www.usps.org/f_stuff/etiquett.html
I have seen plenty of boats at marinas that leave their flags out and wagging against pilings, light posts, and people walking by on the docks, the owners gone for days, weeks, etc. I personally don't take offense, I figure they just don't know or think about it.
As far as free speech goes, there are laws with consequences outlined for actions such as disrespecting the flag. Free speech should protect a person from consequences for expressing an idea, but it should protect them from breaking a specific established law. If the law is unconstitutional, there are avenues for changing that in a democracy. However, you can do anything you are prepared to take the consequences for.

- Will (Dragonfly)