Flag ang burgee etiquette
- Thread starter kpgraci
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Many cruisers, on sloops, fly the ensign from the back stay because it then does not interfere with the backstay itself, OR a topping lift.
I've flown my there for many years on sloops.
On my no backstay, no topping lift Sharpie, it flies from the leech of the after most sail
Courtesy flag, when in another country, flies from starboard spreader. In US waters, a club flag can fly there.
Lets be pragmatic here- we don't sail the boats Chapman's wrote about.
I've flown my there for many years on sloops.
On my no backstay, no topping lift Sharpie, it flies from the leech of the after most sail
Courtesy flag, when in another country, flies from starboard spreader. In US waters, a club flag can fly there.
Lets be pragmatic here- we don't sail the boats Chapman's wrote about.
But Chapman's statements aren't in conflict with modern sloops (and cat boats), yawls, and ketch rigged boats, which covers most of ours.Every party has a pooper...
But if I was going to fly it off the leach, I'd opt for the backstay instead as the best approximation of the intent of flying it over the helm. But in order to keep clutter and complexity to a minimum, I prefer a flag staff off the stern. My flagstaff now is an old pole type all-round white light the PO's used as an anchor light. I have a longer one that gets over the bimini that uses the same socket, so the old one is just a flag staff now. Same socket, dual-purpose, and easy to 'hoist' and 'lower'.
With one exception - I believe it is now acceptable to fly the Yacht Ensign even if state registered (only) and not documented. It depends on who you listen to, and I don't know who or what is the final arbiter on that subject.
Except- flown from staff should be(used to be) under motor only- not when under sail.
not that it makes a huge amount of difference. Personally, I think the intent, and the respect, is what counts.
not that it makes a huge amount of difference. Personally, I think the intent, and the respect, is what counts.
In US waters wherever it suits you. You could fly an ensign, the national flag or nothing at all. In International or foreign waters the national flag should be flown from the stern. I have lost care for etiquette fanatics, have seen to many be overly concerned about location but disregard taking it down in the evening.
Hello all. Some years ago being an academic as well as a power squadron member, I did extensive research on flags, burgees, signals, colors and other identifications used aboard marine small craft. As far as I know having consulted with the Library of Congress there are no present day laws or rules for flying identification signals upon your boat. EXCEPT for many of us, we follow Military rules (which would include the US Navy) which are in existence--it just doesn't always apply to us civilians. Chapman's has been in existence since approximately 1915 from the urging of the then Secretary of the Navy, F. D. Roosevelt who asked Chapman to put together a small booklet to assist private citizens "...interested in fitting himself to be of service to his Government in time of war." (World War I) That request included flying flags and signals from your boat.
Most of our flag etiquette has been borrowed, so to speak, from Europe and their great fleets of ships both military and private. The reason we fly the burgee (a signal of identification) is that it was traditional to dock a ship on the port side and so to let others know who they were they would fly a flag from starboard side facing out into the harbor.,,,hence flying the yacht club burgee from the starboard spreaders.
Flying a national (or company) flag at the stern, often off the gaff of the main sail was that was the most obvious place to fly it. I am curious as to the remark that it was because it was over the captains quarters. I'll have to follow up on that thought. And you didn't have to fly the flag of your nation--it could be an owner's flag or the flag of another nation just to get close to it to engage it in battle.
An interesting bit of history--ports along the east coast of the United States would tax commercial vessels coming into their port however private vessels of leisure were not taxed. So as to not have the port come out to greet (tax) you, the private mariners sought a signal that would make them tax exempt and that was the American flag but with a fouled anchor in the blue field (this law was established about 1849). It was discontinued if my memory serves me sometime in the 1930s. But we yachtsmen liked it and so it has remained a flag of choice. You can fly it anywhere you want but it doesn't represent anything except you like the flag....and foreign countries don't recognize it anyway.
Flying the American flag (the Ensign) from the stern of your boat is a tradition but you could fly it from the bow--as long as you could put up with fellow boat owners suggesting your ancestry. In recent years a practice of flying it from the aft shroud about three quarters up has come into practice. The problem most skippers remark is that when anchored and no breeze the flag droops around the shroud. But it is duable and there is no law against it. Unless, of course, you have a modern day Marlow-Hunter which has no back stay. Ah, the ironies of it all.
Can you leave the American flag up all night? Go ahead, particularly if you are sailing (or powering) through the night. And you don't have to have a light on it. I haven't been able to find out where that thought came about. Probably the military.
Tradition rules the waves in yachting (boating) and so we can fly a variety of signals from wherever we want. When I first started sailing we flew the yacht club burgee from the top of the main mast using a "pig stick." (I've never been able to find out where that term came from) It was a longish stick with eye screws situated in a manner that the most the pig stick went above the mast allowing the burgee to fly in any direction which was a help to the helmsman to find out which way the wind. But with the advent in the early sixties of electronic gear (wind direction and speed, VHF radio antennas, etc) the burgee was moved to the starboard spreaders and seems to be the main position to this day.
As someone in this discussion remarked, there are speciality flags (the Martini--raise your glass high) over the years that we yachtsmen like to fly. The pirates flag is popular and the beer mug. In the first Chapman's book there is a Church Pennant, Guest flag, and my favorite, crew's meal pennant! I suspect that would announce that no servants were available. I wonder if Bill Gate's yacht has that burgee? Another signal that has baffled me over the years is the Night Pennant. Why would they fly that?
In my part of the country (Pacific northwest) for those of us "crossing the border" (going into Canada or coming in the US), we tend to fly a courtesy flag of the country we are entering. For the most part we fly it from the starboard spreader. I've talked to several customs officials from both countries and they really don't know about the quarantine flag. In ancient days a ship would fly the "Q" or quarantine flag until processed into that country or port. In today's modern world, we use a phone or the VHF radio to contact the customs officials.
At times I fly from my starboard spreader my yacht club flag, then underneath it, the Princess Louisa burgee. From my port side spreader I fly my 12th Man flag (if you not from the Northwest--don't ask).
I live in the Puget Sound area with a fleet of large ferry boats which fly two American Flags during daylight hours, one from each end. At least one is at the stern.
And yes, some yacht clubs are quite officious in their regulations. The Seattle Yacht Club has done of good job of putting together a good list of requirements. The New York Yacht Club as well as the American Yacht Club (Rye, NY) also have suggestions as to how and where to fly your signals.
Please take my comments with a grain of salt. My memory is not as good as it ought to be and my notes are long lost in my basement. But in summation there are really no laws that say you have to fly any flag in any position....just custom. And remember, all those flags, buntings, burgees, etc. are just signals telling someone else a bit about you and your boat.
My best to you all.
Les
Most of our flag etiquette has been borrowed, so to speak, from Europe and their great fleets of ships both military and private. The reason we fly the burgee (a signal of identification) is that it was traditional to dock a ship on the port side and so to let others know who they were they would fly a flag from starboard side facing out into the harbor.,,,hence flying the yacht club burgee from the starboard spreaders.
Flying a national (or company) flag at the stern, often off the gaff of the main sail was that was the most obvious place to fly it. I am curious as to the remark that it was because it was over the captains quarters. I'll have to follow up on that thought. And you didn't have to fly the flag of your nation--it could be an owner's flag or the flag of another nation just to get close to it to engage it in battle.
An interesting bit of history--ports along the east coast of the United States would tax commercial vessels coming into their port however private vessels of leisure were not taxed. So as to not have the port come out to greet (tax) you, the private mariners sought a signal that would make them tax exempt and that was the American flag but with a fouled anchor in the blue field (this law was established about 1849). It was discontinued if my memory serves me sometime in the 1930s. But we yachtsmen liked it and so it has remained a flag of choice. You can fly it anywhere you want but it doesn't represent anything except you like the flag....and foreign countries don't recognize it anyway.
Flying the American flag (the Ensign) from the stern of your boat is a tradition but you could fly it from the bow--as long as you could put up with fellow boat owners suggesting your ancestry. In recent years a practice of flying it from the aft shroud about three quarters up has come into practice. The problem most skippers remark is that when anchored and no breeze the flag droops around the shroud. But it is duable and there is no law against it. Unless, of course, you have a modern day Marlow-Hunter which has no back stay. Ah, the ironies of it all.
Can you leave the American flag up all night? Go ahead, particularly if you are sailing (or powering) through the night. And you don't have to have a light on it. I haven't been able to find out where that thought came about. Probably the military.
Tradition rules the waves in yachting (boating) and so we can fly a variety of signals from wherever we want. When I first started sailing we flew the yacht club burgee from the top of the main mast using a "pig stick." (I've never been able to find out where that term came from) It was a longish stick with eye screws situated in a manner that the most the pig stick went above the mast allowing the burgee to fly in any direction which was a help to the helmsman to find out which way the wind. But with the advent in the early sixties of electronic gear (wind direction and speed, VHF radio antennas, etc) the burgee was moved to the starboard spreaders and seems to be the main position to this day.
As someone in this discussion remarked, there are speciality flags (the Martini--raise your glass high) over the years that we yachtsmen like to fly. The pirates flag is popular and the beer mug. In the first Chapman's book there is a Church Pennant, Guest flag, and my favorite, crew's meal pennant! I suspect that would announce that no servants were available. I wonder if Bill Gate's yacht has that burgee? Another signal that has baffled me over the years is the Night Pennant. Why would they fly that?
In my part of the country (Pacific northwest) for those of us "crossing the border" (going into Canada or coming in the US), we tend to fly a courtesy flag of the country we are entering. For the most part we fly it from the starboard spreader. I've talked to several customs officials from both countries and they really don't know about the quarantine flag. In ancient days a ship would fly the "Q" or quarantine flag until processed into that country or port. In today's modern world, we use a phone or the VHF radio to contact the customs officials.
At times I fly from my starboard spreader my yacht club flag, then underneath it, the Princess Louisa burgee. From my port side spreader I fly my 12th Man flag (if you not from the Northwest--don't ask).
I live in the Puget Sound area with a fleet of large ferry boats which fly two American Flags during daylight hours, one from each end. At least one is at the stern.
And yes, some yacht clubs are quite officious in their regulations. The Seattle Yacht Club has done of good job of putting together a good list of requirements. The New York Yacht Club as well as the American Yacht Club (Rye, NY) also have suggestions as to how and where to fly your signals.
Please take my comments with a grain of salt. My memory is not as good as it ought to be and my notes are long lost in my basement. But in summation there are really no laws that say you have to fly any flag in any position....just custom. And remember, all those flags, buntings, burgees, etc. are just signals telling someone else a bit about you and your boat.
My best to you all.
Les
One point- on entering Mexico or the Bahamas, best have that Q flag showing until cleared in. THEN replace with the country courtesy flag. And some countries are very particular about how that courtesy flag looks. I have a friend who made their own flags, and hers wasn't exactly right. Customs made her get a new one. Forget which country- in the Caribbean though.
just be careful in setting up your burgee line that you don't use some kind of metal clip thingy..... that's what was on our boat when we got it, never though too much of it.... (attached to the starboard spreader) and a few years ago our brand new jib caught a little tip on that clip and a nice expense tear resulted. Lesson learned.......we removed the entire line and will replace it (someday) with a tie on system only.:cry:
Good thought. I lashed a steel ring to my starboard spreader using a what the boy scouts call a shear lashing. I plan on just running my signal halyard through the steel ring - no sharp edges anywhere.
They make shroud cleats for just this purpose. I used to have it on our upper shroud, but moved it back to the aft lower to avoid conflict with the jib. The Johnson shroud cleat has a big loop in the upper part of the cleat, so it does double duty: for the flag halyard and for holding the main halyard off the mast when the day is done.
Thank you, Les. That was both entertaining and enlightening.
So the rule-of-thumb for the US Flag is 1 inch of fly for every foot of boat length (rounded up). Does that also apply when flying from the backstay? Or would it be bigger?
So the rule-of-thumb for the US Flag is 1 inch of fly for every foot of boat length (rounded up). Does that also apply when flying from the backstay? Or would it be bigger?
Ooooh, so that's what that loop is for. I never knew that, but always wondered about it. And didn't even think to ask.
Thanks!
I agree, thanks, Les.
Brian, I used that sizing for our flag and run it off the backstay. The whole idea is to have it look proportional to the boat. Anything smaller looks like a postage stamp and anything bigger is out of proportion and looks ostentatious to me. IIRC, the West Marine Advisors have this sizing recommendations, too.
Nice work Les, but I found it did not address sailing in International or Foreign waters. It is the current practice to fly the National Flag in the stern and a courtesy flag on the starboard spreader to indicate you have cleared customs and are no longer under quarantine.
Back in September, 2008, I put my Chicago Cubs flag at a position of honor on the backstay. They were in 1st place but went into a tailspin for a week, so I took it off. They won the Division but lost 3 straight to the Dodgers in the 1st round that year and I haven't had that flag out since.
I have my SBO burgee on the port spreader ... should it be moved to the starboard?
I have my SBO burgee on the port spreader ... should it be moved to the starboard?
- Dec 30, 2009
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I am flyin a 6' x4' american beauty off 7' starboard staff, looks awesome. I have a running burgee line from port spreader to rail, I hang all sorts, yacht club burgee, martini glass, and pirate burgees, whatever mood strikes.... Red
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