Fixed top lift

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May 2, 2008
254
S2 9.2C 1980 St. Leonard (Chesapeake Bay), MD
Now that I have gotten enough information to figure out my reefing system my next question if about the top lifting arrangement. I am assuming that the standard configuration on the 9.2C (mine is a 1980) was FIXED. Several people who advised me about the reefing system also advised me to modify the FIXED to adjustable by shortening the wire and adding a block system leading to the boom end.

My question to those experienced with sailing the S2 is - is it worth making the modifications? Are the advantages significant? I am reluctant to 're-engineer' what the professionals designed unless it really makes that much difference.
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
It does make a difference from the perspective of ease of putting in the reef under sail. Personally, when I sail, I typically make a decision before I go out whether or not to reef. It is easy enough to let out a reef solo, if conditions lighten, but more challenging to put one in when conditions get rough.

Roger, an experienced sailor and a marine architect, said the topping lift is the "key to easy reefing." He didn't say why though! My thought is that is that, when you reef (especially under sail) you must release the main halyard to drop the sail enough so you can hook the forward cringle on the reef horn and adjust the reefing line pulling down the aft cringle. When you do this, an adjustable topping lift can be used to hold the boom up, which makes the operation safer and more controlled as the main halyard doesn't have the weight of the boom pulling down on it. After all the lines are secure you can then tension the main halyard again and release the tension on the topping lift.

I really hadn't put any thought into it before, but now I am thinking that I am perhaps better off making my topping lift adjustable by sacraficing or otherwise adapting (I like that idea better) my second reefing line for use as an adjustable topping lift.

Why didn't the professionals who designed the S2 make the topping lift adjustable in the first place? As you are no doubt learning, there are many ways to rig a sailboat. There are also many places to sail a sailboat. It depends what is important to you and your area. Somebody in San Francisco Bay might put a reef or two in frequently, due to what I understand are very windy conditions there. In Boston reefing has been strictly a mental exercise for me because, frankly, winds are often light in summer and I can pick my weather to go out in. However, if you plan on cruising you should think about your reefing capabilities because weather can change quickly and you should be prepared for any eventuality, including an engine failure in bad weather.

Roger pointed me to a story he has on his site. He was solo, motoring his boat to the yard for winter storage and his engine quit. See the link.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/Strider.htm#Last

Now nobody intends to end up in such a position. However, read the story and then imagine that it is you, that you had furled your jib up, are still overpowered, but need the jib to tack effectively. Assume you are now mentally and perhaps physically tired from the stress and strain of the situation and need to put a reef in the main (he apparently had one in and put a second in). Now the decision you made last fall on whether or not to make your topping lift adjustable comes back to haunt you...

Now there are a host of things you can install or do on your boat to help in different situations. Think about what your plans are for the boat, make a list and get to work. It may be more important to replace some running rigging and do some engine and other maintenance than to worry about reconfiguring things. The topping lift modification has just made my "to do" list, but it won't stop me from sailing and it isn't on the top of the list. I have to reseal some chain plates first to protect my investment (just mailed in another payment yesterday).
 
May 2, 2008
254
S2 9.2C 1980 St. Leonard (Chesapeake Bay), MD
I understand the need for a topping lift but I am still unsure as to how a moveable one is better than the fixed one that I have. Or am I supposed to unhook the fixed topping lift when I get the main up??? If that is the case then the design is REALLY BAD.
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
Yes you are supposed to remove the fixed topping lift when the main is up, otherwise you won't get proper sail shape. Yes, I agree, the fixed topping lift is a real pain. Next time I have access to the mast head (something I do as infrequently as possible) I would have removed mine (I have a second on off the back stay I could use at the mooring / when not sailing), but will now re-think based on the issues raised here. An easy way around it is to get a boomkicker, a fixed boom vang replacement which will hold the boom up at all times removing the need for a topping lift. I would really think about it if I had a 9.2C as it seems to me that I'd be more concerned about dropping the boom on my head ;-)
 

BobT

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Sep 29, 2008
239
Gulfstar 37 North East River, Chesapeake Bay
On my S2 27, the topping lift attaches at the boom end with a little block and a short line with a jam fixture. The only photo I have here doesn't show the fixture. But it does show the lift slack while the sail is up. I still have cockpit headroom when the sail is down, so I haven't felt the need to take up on the lift. I never gave it a thought until a ride on a buddy's '70s C&C recently, wondering why he was futzing around with the topping lift so much.
Am I missing something? Perhaps the lift interferes with roach on some boats?
 

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May 2, 2008
254
S2 9.2C 1980 St. Leonard (Chesapeake Bay), MD
On my O'Day 22 the only lift was attached to the backstay and it had to be removed when the sail was up (otherwise the boom was held to the centerline). I never gave it any thought while sailing the S2 this past summer. To remove it would require tools and I didn't notice it interfering with the mainsail (although I am not skilled in the fine tuning of sail shape). I would have thought that if it was intended to be removed there would be a different type of attachment to the boom end.
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
If I don't remove my topping lift the boom is held up artificially high. This likely impacts sail trim giving the sail a bigger belly, which would be a problem in high wind conditions as it would be difficult to flatten out the sail to reduce the amount of wind the sail is catching.

The problem with removing it is where to put it? It is wire and I don't wan't to have it slapping around on the sail. If I bring it back to the back stay it tends to wind around it. I like the idea of a block, either at the end of a shortened topping lift or on the boom. I don't like the idea of a jam cleat holding up something heavy that could hit me in the head though. Either that or I will work out a way to secure it under tension to my back stay. There is a flag halyard cleat there I have tried to use, but it isn't simple to use.
 
Mar 8, 2008
41
S2 30 9.2A Jax
Hope I'm not too late on this response --
I have a 9.2A and encountered the same problem with the permanent topping lift. To solve the problem, I shortened the wire about two feet above the boom and attached a block at that point as well as a cam cleat and fairlead at the end of the boom (tight fit, but one of the nylon harken cleats fit with a bit of rounding the edges). I ran a low stretch line through the block and through the cleat -- problem solved. I can now simply uncleat and tighten the line and my boom raises a good 18-20 inches above my bimini when not sailing and then lower the line and allow the leach to tension the sail when sailing. Regarding Bob M's concerns, the cam cleat has never lost grip on the line and since the 9.2A's sails have almost no roach, there is no concern with the lift (wire) chaffing the sail. Hope the information helps.
Rick
 
May 2, 2008
254
S2 9.2C 1980 St. Leonard (Chesapeake Bay), MD
You info is much appreciated (and not 'late'). If possible, could you take a picture of your configuration and post it here for me?

Thanks.
 
Mar 8, 2008
41
S2 30 9.2A Jax
We went out today for a nice sail and I brought the camera, thinking someone would want a visual to back up my written description -- so a I took a couple of photos (attached). The main was reefed when I shot these today. I should have mentioned that I use two blocks, with a becket on the block at the end of the wire.
 

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May 2, 2008
254
S2 9.2C 1980 St. Leonard (Chesapeake Bay), MD
Thanks for the pictures! It is something for me to think about doing.
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
Questions

Rok,

Is the mechanical advantage of a block and tackle necessary to pull the boom up? I guess that I was envisioning making mine a single block system.

The end boom mounting for the cam cleat is unique. I guess that I still a little uneasy at relying on a cam cleat for this purpose given the potential for injury/damage if the line comes out. Granted that that is pretty unlikely as you really are only using it to either control the topping lift when under sail (in which case the main sail and sheet are really responsible for holding up the boom) or at rest when the main sheet will maintain downward tension keeping the cams engaged.

So I guess the biggest risk would be when you are raising the main with the mainsheet loose to stop you from sailing during the operation...don't mind me...just thinking while I type. :confused: The cam cleat would be pretty convenient in that location, plus if you forget to loosen it, :eek: it will be easy to snap the line out of the cams. :D

So I am sold. I will probably try this out in the spring, as the fixed topping lift drove me nuts last year. :cussing:

BobM
 
Mar 8, 2008
41
S2 30 9.2A Jax
Gary -- You are welcome.

Bob --

Not sure if you need the two block system, but it's what I set up. It's very easy to lift the boom with the double blocks. The cam has never accidently released in over two years, so I'm confident it will hold. All tension is focused up and forward, so even without the fairlead it would hold, but the fairlead gives added assurance.

Again, it's only about 20-22 inches of movement and it's usually only about 10-12 inches when engaged and this is only when the sail is down so I can keep the boom off the bimini.

On a different note, it looks like you are doing/have done quite a bit on your 9.2. Mine is a 1985 and we too have done loads of work and improvements. It's interesting in an earlier post that you had to work through an alignment/engine mount issue. That was us last April when I installed new Yanmar mounts. Anyway, I have some experience now with the 9.2, so feel free to ask any questions and I'll be happy to answer if it's something we have encountered.

Also, I put a few photos of her in the picture gallery (I think you can get to it by clicking on my screen name) -- I guess I'm a proud papa! It's good to have a few 9.2 connections around.

Take care,
Rick
 
May 2, 2008
254
S2 9.2C 1980 St. Leonard (Chesapeake Bay), MD
Rick,
Nice pictures. I especially was impressed with how shiny the hull is - looks like you put a lot of elbow grease into it!

I have a lot of questions of 9.2 owners, the little things that I think of as I daydream about spring and getting back on board. My baby was apparently not used for at least 2 years prior to my purchase of her. As a result there were a lot of 'little' things that needed attention/correction/repair. My big question right now is what kind of power can I expect out of my 'house bank' that consists of an almost dead deep cycle battery (I had to replace the starting battery a couple of months ago and will replace the deep cycle in the spring). I don't know whether I can use it for a couple of days cruising with brief charges from the stock Yanmar alternator or if I need to invest in an alternate means of charging. Money is the big obstacle as well as available space for solar panels or storing a small generator. I'm hoping to eventually make a trip down the ICW, at least to Beaufort, N.C., if not further.

Gary
 
Mar 8, 2008
41
S2 30 9.2A Jax
Gary,

The topsides (hull) and mast/boom were painted with awlgrip about two years ago, so I can't take credit for the elbow grease. The deck is original. I was lucky in that the previous owner lived in Ohio and only brought the boat to Florida right before I bought her, so the Florida sun did not do its usual damage.

First thing I did was replace the old charger with a smart charger. I bought a 10 amp unit for about $125. Bigger would have worked as well, but the lower amp unit can run off of my honda generator, so I can charge when cruising. It takes about 30-45 minutes to recharge on a heavy usage day. I've been planning on adding a solar panel, but really haven't had the need to date. My fridge is a stand-alone waeco coolmatic and is very efficient, hence the delay on the panel (I'm pretty frugal on usage when underway). I installed davits last year, so the solar panel would mount nicely across the davits when that time comes.

As far as batteries, it came with two regular group 27's. I'm not sure how access is for you, but they are located under the quarter berth on the 9.2A -- not easy to access/inspect. Hence, I replaced them with two AGM 27's. I essentially live off of one and reserve the other for emergency starting.

I suspect you could go for some time on a single battery, providing that you use little DC while underway and engage the engine enough for sufficient charging (refrigeration would be one big negative and there are others). I guess there is no easy answer to your question, but instead to compute the number of amp hours you'll use (and need for starting) and can store in the battery in relation to the charging capacity of the alternator (always lower than what it is rated at). I'd still want to reserve one battery for the sole purpose of starting, however. Don Casey has a good read on the supply/demand issues of boat batteries at the following URL:

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/electric.htm

Rick
 
May 2, 2008
254
S2 9.2C 1980 St. Leonard (Chesapeake Bay), MD
Well, it looks like I have hijacked this original thread....Thanks for your response. I'm a novice in this area and will have to research what the different types of batteries are (AGM, regular 27, etc.). As for my power requirements - right now they are very limited - just routine lighting (although I am switching to LEDs for the exterior lights), 2 small fans, AM/FM CD car type stereo, handheld GPS, water and bilge pumps and maybe laptop computer. I do NOT have a refigerator or any other high use electrical items at this time. I'm mostly concerned about using only the starting battery for that purpose and the other for the lights, etc.

Gary
 
Mar 8, 2008
41
S2 30 9.2A Jax
Well, it looks like I have hijacked this original thread....Thanks for your response. I'm a novice in this area and will have to research what the different types of batteries are (AGM, regular 27, etc.). As for my power requirements - right now they are very limited - just routine lighting (although I am switching to LEDs for the exterior lights), 2 small fans, AM/FM CD car type stereo, handheld GPS, water and bilge pumps and maybe laptop computer. I do NOT have a refigerator or any other high use electrical items at this time. I'm mostly concerned about using only the starting battery for that purpose and the other for the lights, etc.

Gary
You've hijacked your own thread. :)
Feel free to contact me via email if questions arise. Not sure if I can always help, but certainly willing to try. Best,
Rick
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
Thanks and Happy Holidays

:hijacked:

Thanks to you two for yacking with me about the 9.2. It was a long time coming and I am enjoying it imensely. Some hard work done, but plenty to go. Happy Holidays.

BobM
 

BobT

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Sep 29, 2008
239
Gulfstar 37 North East River, Chesapeake Bay
topping lift jam fixture

Here's a photo of the little jam fixture at the boom end of my lift. it's marked 'made in Australia'.
 

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