Fixed A-Frame Mast Raising System

Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
Stepped the mast yesterday using a gin pole and wire bridle for baby stays...I'm still not happy with the gin pole. Lateral stability of the mast is a problem even with baby stays...probably a result of my bridle design. Instead of the Catalina 22 style bridle which is an upside down 'V' I have a single line, an "I" as it were because my only attach point is the chainplate itself. The single line ends in a steel ring that hovers at the height of the tabernacle on the coach roof providing the pivot point for the gin pole and mast babystays. In theory it seemed like it would work, and it does, but they whole process just seems difficult and unstable.

The fixed A-frame appears to me like a big improvement on the gin pole concept. The A-Frame is anchored to the deck somehow (the author says lash it to the stanchions, which I don't have) then a sold line attaches the top of the frame to the stemfitting. The hoist line goes the other way to the mast - held in place on the mast by a halyard (brilliant!). Babystays are still needed on the mast, which is a problem for me, but no more of a problem than with a gin pole.

Anyone have any experience using a fixed A-Frame like this? Is so, what do you think?

mast_raising_system2.jpg
 
Jun 14, 2010
43
oday 222 Milltown, NB
Stepped the mast yesterday using a gin pole and wire bridle for baby stays...I'm still not happy with the gin pole. Lateral stability of the mast is a problem even with baby stays...probably a result of my bridle design. Instead of the Catalina 22 style bridle which is an upside down 'V' I have a single line, an "I" as it were because my only attach point is the chainplate itself. The single line ends in a steel ring that hovers at the height of the tabernacle on the coach roof providing the pivot point for the gin pole and mast babystays. In theory it seemed like it would work, and it does, but they whole process just seems difficult and unstable.

The fixed A-frame appears to me like a big improvement on the gin pole concept. The A-Frame is anchored to the deck somehow (the author says lash it to the stanchions, which I don't have) then a sold line attaches the top of the frame to the stemfitting. The hoist line goes the other way to the mast - held in place on the mast by a halyard (brilliant!). Babystays are still needed on the mast, which is a problem for me, but no more of a problem than with a gin pole.

Anyone have any experience using a fixed A-Frame like this? Is so, what do you think?

View attachment 66895
I like th Aframe better than gin pole. With my OD222 I just tie the ends to the stantions. Eliminates another set of baby stays. Also less setting up ie attaching to mast.

Have a look at my set up

http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/album.php?albumid=2596


regards
tom c
S/V Mio Amore
OD 222
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
There was guy over on the trailersailers.com Precision forum that got a gooseneck slide, and took 2 metal pipes, smushed the ends, attached both to the slide, and each end attached to stanchion bases. He may have used a gin pole. This lifts the mast, and the rigid yet sliding supports provide lateral stability to the mast, without having to worry about somehow mounting baby stays in line with the mast pivot point. That's always been my issue with baby stays, they have to be mounted in line with the mast pivot point.

Brian
 
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
srojoetoo, what is that contraption you use for the hinge points...how is it secured to to boat?

Brian S, Sliding gooseneck stabilizer...I like that. I would be a double A frame setup, rear stabilizer A frame and front hoisting A frame. No stays at all, this has potential.
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
KP, if you use search on the Precision forum, you should find some posts on that rigid sliding A-frame. The guy who did it has posted pictures within the past 6 months or less...

Brian
 
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
KP, if you use search on the Precision forum, you should find some posts on that rigid sliding A-frame. The guy who did it has posted pictures within the past 6 months or less...

Brian
Thanks. I have actually seen a setup like that somewhere on the web but had forgotton all about it until you mentioned it. I''ll check it out.

There it is...
1371564075.jpg
 
Jun 12, 2010
936
Oday 22 Orleans Marina, NOLA
I found this...the springs tension the upper stay on each side to provide stability - it may work (well, it does) and is simpler than a sliging A frame, but does require disconnecting the side stays to insert the spring, whereas with the sliding A Frame they stay connected...

I could install a shroud cleat to tension the stays...hmmmmm

Here he uses a rotating A frame so it must pivot like the mast, I'm still advocating a fixed a frame to eliminate that need. the A Frame itselft is interesting however. 2 aluminumn angle irons...nice.

aFrame-00001L.jpg

source: https://sites.google.com/site/richardstonefeldswetwillie/mast-raising-lowering
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
I don't understand why the guy uses springs in line with the uppers. If the uppers are swept, there should be no tension on them until the mast is fully upright. Hence the need for lateral stabilizing via baby stays pivoting at the same point as the mast, or the sliding A-frame on the mast. If needed, tape the turnbuckles for the shrouds in position prior to the raise so that they do not bend, or bend the chain plates...

Judy Blumhorst of www.judybsails.com had made a rig for her West Wight Potter 19 using a gin pole. Both the gin pole and mast had baby stays. I suppose the A-frame being the lifting member eliminates the need to stay a gin pole.

Brian
 
Jun 14, 2010
43
oday 222 Milltown, NB
srojoetoo, what is that contraption you use for the hinge points...how is it secured to to boat?

Brian S, Sliding gooseneck stabilizer...I like that. I would be a double A frame setup, rear stabilizer A frame and front hoisting A frame. No stays at all, this has potential.
Here is a close up of the hinge point. Set up a straight edge with shims[2x4 +] on top of the mast base to get the vertical and lateral measurements. the base sits on deck and the short [adjustable] line goes to ase of stantion. The longer one is the adjustable baby stay(s) to the mast [raised with main halyard]. I epoxied an eye bolt into a 2x2 being careful of measurements. (Got it on second try).

Was hoping for something with less parts for demasting on the water. Tried a model with a bridle attachments to base of stantion and the loops on the bow pulpit. Couldn't get it to work for real :-(
 

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Aug 22, 2011
1,113
MacGregor Venture V224 Cheeseland
Here is a close up of the hinge point. Set up a straight edge with shims[2x4 +] on top of the mast base to get the vertical and lateral measurements. the base sits on deck and the short [adjustable] line goes to ase of stantion. The longer one is the adjustable baby stay(s) to the mast [raised with main halyard]. I epoxied an eye bolt into a 2x2 being careful of measurements. (Got it on second try).

Was hoping for something with less parts for demasting on the water. Tried a model with a bridle attachments to base of stantion and the loops on the bow pulpit. Couldn't get it to work for real :-(

I have tried several different systems. I have found my solution.

I struggled with this for a while but have found my solution. I wanted simple, reliable, and useable on the water if needed with a minimum of gear and easy to stow on the boat. Also no longer wanted to use any halyards for the operation or any of the boats own tackle.

I don't know if you can make out whats going on in the attached photo.

Its a fixed gin pole with a winch and block on it. This attaches to anchor cleat on bow and to a bail on the mast about 6 feet up. The base slips over the mast step bolt. For baby stays: I have a harness on each side (attaches to backed jib sheet fair leads and to front docking cleats - this sets the pivot point for the baby stays at the mast pivot point). The actual baby stays are racthet straps that attach to the same bail on the mast as the gin pole. Ratchet straps make the baby stays adjustable. It works well and is easy to handle stow and adjust.

I can provide more details if you like.

This system is similar to what I think is used on some of the Macgregor power sailors but I built it from garage junk.
 

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Jun 14, 2010
43
oday 222 Milltown, NB
With a different deck set up, some of your techniques will require some mods but some great ideas.

Tom c
S/V Mio Amore
OD 222
 
May 18, 2012
58
Oday 19 Lake George
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Bill (weh5748), sorry, I didn't realize those posts weren't showing up for the trailersailors.com forum. After a year or so, I think posts get moved from the main forum to an archive forum, which is probably what happened.

I did a quick search, and I found Judy Blumhorst's posting to her newer mast raising solution. http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/potter/index.cgi/read/105135 But if this post gets archived, here's her raising and lowering video on YouTube: http://youtu.be/aIXH9jos-cI and the system rigging video: http://youtu.be/ZBNSyhnfo4E

Quick description, she mounts a gin pole with winch to the front of the mast tabernacle. This pole is anchored to the stemhead fitting, and has a rope bridle side to side, fixing it in position. The brake style winch on the pole is attached to a bail on the mast. The mast baby stays are connected to the winching line, which wind up in front of the mast, and are attached at deck level, just in front of the mast pivot, to genoa tracks on the cabin top.

As you can see from the video, her system clearly works. I take issue with some of the finer details of the engineering. As you can tell from the video, when the mast is fully up, the position and length of the mast baby stays make them very tight. Seems there is a lot of strain in the system. If I were to do similar, I would probably measure carefully, and attach lines to the fittings with close tolerances. I'd maybe even use single braid Dyneema, which will allow easy brummel splices to exact lengths. Also, the mast stays seem loose during raising and lowering, which you can see from the lowering section of the video, allows some lateral movement as she nudges the mast into the cradle. Again, careful mounting of baby stays such that they pivot from the mast pivot point, and at the same vertical height of the mast step pivot, should eliminate this and provide fixed tension. If you had stanchion bases forward and aft of the mast step pivot, I would make a bridle from stanchion base to base, with a SS ring at the correct height of the pivot point. Again, this would be fairly easy to fix the position with splices of single braid.

Some people have rigged the gin pole with stays such that there is purchase from the gin pole to the stemhead fitting, possibly using mainsheet tackle or vang tackle, such that the connection from gin pole to mast is fixed length, and the gin pole is intended to pivot. With such a system, the bridle for the gin pole must again attach to deck level at the pole pivot point, which seems to be the biggest problem. I think that Judy's solution of keeping the pole fixed has great merit, as the side bridle can be attached to anywhere on deck to provide an unmoving tripod.

If you did use a pivoting gin pole, and you had deck attachment points fore and aft of the mast pivot, such as stanchion bases, you could easily rig a bridle with ring in line with the pivot point, and attach both gin pole and mast baby stays to this ring, allowing them all to maintain tension while pivoting. 1/8" Dyneema single braid (such as Sampson Amsteel Blue) would be an easy spliced solution for bridle and stays, and would be overkill as far as strength.

For me, I don't have to lower the mast on the water (say, to get under a bridge), so I just rely on an 8' mast crutch mounted to my rudder gudgeons on the transom. This starts my mast at an angle, and I can straddle the mast facing aft, and lift it up. Or, in the case of this fall, lower it into the crutch while controlling side to side. Hah, essentially I become the tripod... The guy helping me lower said he didn't take any weight on the line I gave him - but I really wanted him there "just in case." We'll see how spring raising goes this year.

Brian
 
Sep 25, 2008
992
Oday 25 Gibraltar
The more I think about this system the more I like it. I've been raising and lowering my mast at the dock for several years using the a-frame rig that I have in my Pic album and it's been working for me though I have to extend the head of the mast out behind the boat. It hasn't been a problem yet but I like raising the mast straight up. It doesn't look like too much involved in constructing a setup either. Definitely worth noodling with. Don't know if I'll get to do it this spring, maybe by the fall.

A VERY nice commercial system, a telescoping A-frame/pole for mast raising.





Sadly only in Europe AFAICT, but some good ideas. The pics are from a Dutch friend of mine who uses it all the time. The First 260 has a very tall mast can cannot be done without a pole.

http://translate.google.com/transla.../11254016/telescopische-maststrijkinstallatie