Fisher Panda Genset problem

[CaptainLulu]

I am the proud new owner of a Catalina 350 / 2004 model. The boat was never used by the P.O and the engine only had 82 hours on it and the 4W (4200 SC) genset had 20 hours when purchased 6 weeks ago. I have proceeded to put 18 hours on the genset and then all of a sudden it stopped making power. The generator engine runs perfectly but it just wont make power from the unit. Everything else checks out .. capacitors ete. There is absolutely no indication of water intrusion. Heck you could eat off the thing it is so clean.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this with their FP.

I called FP and they walked throught the check list with a local mechanic here ( I am nowhere close to a service center for sure) and determined that back end needed to be rewound or you could by a new one for about $3800.00 USD not including labor to pull the until out and fix it. FP is of course NOT willing to do anything since it is 8 years old regardless of how many hours are on it.

I fundamentally have a problem with the fact that these things are designed and built to run for 1000's of hours and after 38 hours of running it just stops and for no appparent obvious reason. Even FP says it is strange but too bad.

So if this is so obscure it would seem reasonable that FP should stand behind their product as it appears to be one of those strange product defect or failures.

If FP does not come through for me I will have to decide what to replace the unit with as it WONT be a FP for sure.

Which Genset manufactures have a good history of standing behind their product and does anyone have a recommendation on units with historically long lifespans and good product quality ?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks Captain LuLu

 

[Bill Roosa]

sounds like a fuse or breaker popped

 

[redhead78]

Lulu, I am not an electrician, but one thing I know for sure don,t do anything rash.I have a full house genset, I know they are different, one way they are not is fuse or breaker protection. If this thing stopped generating power, without any smells or sounds it sure sounds like fuse protection. A breaker would probably be more obivious. Do u have a manual, look for a fuse in the diagram, next thing u should get a good electrician to look at it. The actual generating of power is not rocket science, its the checks and sensors they install for protection that are complicated. From your description its probably a sensor or something locking out some operation...Last month I was about to chuck out a 42" flat screen tv, no power, 5 yrs old, took off the back a 30cent 250volt 5 amp ceramic fuse was bad.....sorry so wordy, my point is get someone u trust to look at it .....Red

 

[Jeff Jellick]

I had a similar problem with my 8Kw F/P generator on my Hunter 45 CC. It turned out that the generator was actually putting out 120-volts, but the problem was (still is) with the 120-volt AC Dsitribution Panel. I do not know about Catalina's, but on the Hunter's there are relays inside the 120-volt AC distribution panel, that are operated by 12-volt "rocker switches" on another panel at the nav. station. Since I am getting 120-volts where the generator leads attach to the 120-volt panel, the problem is with one or more of the relays. Have you checked your 120-volt panel ? Also if you have the F/P remote panel that is used to start and stop the generator, all of the generator read-outs (volts, Hertz's, RPM's) are shown on this panel. Good Luck
Jeff

 

[Gunni]

Settle down big fellow! Blaming the manufacturer of a long-neglected 8 y.o. genset is not reasonable. Unused marine systems deteriorate fast. You need to save your patience for that tank of 8 y.o. fuel.

Find an ABYC marine electrician. Do a complete systems check per Red and Jeff's experience.

 

[onecoolair]

my panda will not run more then 20 minutes

I am the proud new owner of a Catalina 350 / 2004 model. The boat was never used by the P.O and the engine only had 82 hours on it and the 4W (4200 SC) genset had 20 hours when purchased 6 weeks ago. I have proceeded to put 18 hours on the genset and then all of a sudden it stopped making power. The generator engine runs perfectly but it just wont make power from the unit. Everything else checks out .. capacitors ete. There is absolutely no indication of water intrusion. Heck you could eat off the thing it is so clean.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this with their FP.

I called FP and they walked throught the check list with a local mechanic here ( I am nowhere close to a service center for sure) and determined that back end needed to be rewound or you could by a new one for about $3800.00 USD not including labor to pull the until out and fix it. FP is of course NOT willing to do anything since it is 8 years old regardless of how many hours are on it.

I fundamentally have a problem with the fact that these things are designed and built to run for 1000's of hours and after 38 hours of running it just stops and for no appparent obvious reason. Even FP says it is strange but too bad.

So if this is so obscure it would seem reasonable that FP should stand behind their product as it appears to be one of those strange product defect or failures.

If FP does not come through for me I will have to decide what to replace the unit with as it WONT be a FP for sure.

Which Genset manufactures have a good history of standing behind their product and does anyone have a recommendation on units with historically long lifespans and good product quality ?

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks Captain LuLu

My H356 as a kabuda panda. It has a main breaker hidden in the back of the hanging storage locker next to the head. Try looking for that. Mine breaker has never tripped. But on several occassions I have accidently flipped the breaker by blindly reaching in to get something out put something away and noticing till I need to use the generator.
On another note I have been trouble shooting for two years now trying to figure why my panda will not run more then 20 minutes. Help anybody?

 

[Marc14857]

Re: my panda will not run more then 20 minutes

Had the same problem with my 6Kw F/P. Turned out to be the inline pencil fuel filter downstream of the main fuel filter. Didn't even know it was there until a friend showed me where it was. Replaced it with a NAPA eqivilent for about 14 dollars. Problem solved.

 

[kenn]

Yeah, I'm with everyone else here... if there wasn't a catastrophic fail with overheating and smoke, or at least a burning smell, then it sounds like something simple has happened: a fuse or breaker somewhere, a connection failed, a wire broke, a rectifier or other semiconductor has died.

If it's been determined that a specific winding has opened up, the next step is to remove and open up the generating part, and make inspection and tests on that winding. If you're lucky, there will be an obvious break that can be repaired.

If the winding measures bad and there's no obvious break, the next step is a good alternator or electric motor rebuilding shop who could simply replace/rewind the bad winding. I'm not certain but guessing that would be around a few hundred dollars.

I can't fault FP for not providing warranty service to an 8-year-old genset. Stuff happens... At least they're putting in time to help you diagnose the problem.

 

[Nigel H]

Ok I have a FP gen set and the main problem is the claw and rotor system also on mine the starter motor drops down through the center of the gen set so if the battery is low or the starter does not engage properly it drops iron filings in to the centre of the claw an rotor which pick up and short out the alternator side and this it ! finished also if you press the starter while running has the same effect mine is the small unit that uses sea water only for cooling I have also replaced the control panel and the starter best thing is for the FP to have its own starter battery not the house batteries. Its a good unit and yes expensive if it goes wrong also keep the filters checked daily they block and then it strips the raw water pump blades you can even get the remains stuck in a water passage ! that took some finding but when its working its a great little unit just annoying when it goes wrong !

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

I have installed this spring a MASE 7.6 generator in my 41DS. I have the shop manual which gives detailed instructions on troubleshooting the generator end of the unit. All that is needed is a Volt-Ohm meter. I know the type of alternator the MASE generator uses is a "brushless, self-excited type" which I believe is different from what is used in the FP. The tests can be carried out without removing the alternator from the the unit. Although the test for the MASE may be different than for the FP, I would be happy to send you the PDF as it may give you some ideas. You can also find out from FP if these tests can be done on your unit, and did the mechanic perform them when he tested your unit? Before I would pull the alternator out of the unit, I would want to be 100% sure that the windings are shot, and that the problem is not something that can be fixed easily.

 

[Chuckbear]

Welcome to the world of Fischer Panda ownership. I too would suggest looking for all of the obvious easy fixes first. A mechanic with experience troubleshooting the FP will go a long way to help fix it if it is something simple. The problem most see with the FP is the complex engineering that is gear toward failure if every step of every maintenance is not followed and that is also FP's mantra. If you indeed have to replace it I would suggest you consider the Next Gen unit if space is an issue, which is why many install a FP. The Mace is another small but good choice. I suspect that with the 350 you won't have the room or be able to tolerate the weight of a Northern Lights. Chuck

 

[Cayennita]

15 years ago I installed a Phasor 8.5 KW gen set. I used it for 2200 hours before selling the sailboat. It was a very simple Kubota engine with a Columbia generator. No fancy electronics or strange fuzes hidden everywhere. I could remove the gen. section my self if need be. Only problem I had was 1 worn exhaust elbow. Replace the zinc twice. Impeller twice and electric fuel pump twice. The pump is a NAPA electric unit. never gave me problems. However if you check around, you'll find out that 80% or so of gen set problems are FP's. Engine runs at twice the RPM's and the cooling is complicated because of the water also cooling the gen. portion. Running at twice the 1800 RPM's of most generators means everything is running twice as fast and wear and tear is faster.

 

[Weasel]

Hi Leslie:

I am not an electrician but it would seem that it could be a brush problem. I am in agreement with Gunni, the boat was essentially unused and the brushes, a componded material can become brittle with age. Hope you get it fixed, come over for a beer. Just be careful of who you use to "Fix" it..... if you know what I mean.........

Best,

Weasel

 

[rtmccue]

On my 376 i had a 4 kw fisher panda , I would not recomend this generator to anyone . Every vacation it had a problem. Very poor in customer service too.

 

[seadaddler]

My 4200

The only problem with my 4200 was my fault when replacing the one starting relay and did not replace the plastic hold down cover and so both relays would come loose and stop the internal cooling and than shut down due to the over heat sensor.
I did get very good support from FP helping to find my screw up with the relays and did help me learn more about what the 2 relays really do so no more problems.
I am pretty sure there should be a transfer switch in the system keeping from more than one power supply from either the shore or Gen to the main 110 panel so maybe it is not working,I do see a delay from the Gen when first starting the Gen and so maybe your transfer switch is not doing it's job and not transfering power from the Gen to the 110 panel,just a guess you may need to have checked.
Nick

 

[CaptainLulu]

Thanks all for the comments... I am still trying to find someone who can negotiate all the troubleshooting necessary before anything rash. Thank goodness it is getting cooler here in south. Just for you Weasel... I will watch out for shade tree mechanics. !

 

[Jeff Till]

CaptainLulu,
Were you able to get this resolved? If not there is a way to test the backend and determine if it really needs to be replaced.

Send me and email or give me a call and let me know how it turned out.

Jeff Till
Fischer Panda Generators
jtill (at)fischerpanda.com
954-462-2800

 

[seadaddler]

CaptainLulu,
Were you able to get this resolved? If not there is a way to test the backend and determine if it really needs to be replaced.

Send me and email or give me a call and let me know how it turned out.

Jeff Till
Fischer Panda Generators
jtill (at)fischerpanda.com
954-462-2800

Have you checked the auto switch box that sends power to panel

 

[Bill Roosa]

The auto switch box is also called the source select switch. There are numerous ways to construct a source select switch so you might be looking for a black box that does it all automagically, a rotary switch with the various sources on it or a set of circuit breakers with a slider lock to prevent both sets from being engaged at the same time.

 

[js_jakey]

Capt. Lulu,

Behind the remote control start panel there are 2 fuses, I'd start there. Had this problem on a customers boat and after hours of pulling my hair out, there it was. If the problem isn't there, then find the main breaker or fuse inside the enclosure I think, can't remember where it is. If this checks out ok, I'd look at the AC voltage regulator. You may need a qualified electrician to do this.If you don't know how don't do it, serios injury or death may occur. If you're getting power to the regulator, but not out of it there may be a way to reset or "flash" it. If you're not getting power to the regulator, check the brushes if so equipped. If the brushes are ok or it's brushless then have the electrician perform a megger test. Again if you are not qualified do not attemp to perform a megger test as damge to the equipment, serious injury or death may occur.

Jeff