First time sail boat buyer need your help!

Jim26m · Oct 28, 2019

Mr Fox said:
I think that McGregor actually seems like it would be fun- there’s a lot of room, plenty of births for sleeping, good amount of light below, a big outboard and trailerable. It’s a little quirky, definitely different (therefore not for everyone) but who cares if you enjoy it and like the way it looks?

I’m not saying it is your best choice, but it seems on paper (I’ve never been on one) like a very flexible boat as long as you don’t plan to be out of sight of shore.

Definitely not everybody's cup of tea. Lot of compromises. Just happens to be exactly what I want, for the way I use it. If you ever find yourself slow roasting in LA ( lower Alabama), shoot me a PM. I'll let you cheat death on a Macgregor, if I can work it into my ridiculous schedule.

Mr Fox · Oct 29, 2019

Jim26m said:
Definitely not everybody's cup of tea.

As the owner of a Marshall 22 catboat, I know EXACTLY what you mean...

Scott T-Bird · Oct 29, 2019

Ok, I suppose I come across as a hater and that's all some of you folks see, but my only point is that the original post left a lot of room for doubt about how the boat is going to be used. Which is it? Sandbar party boat and overnights in protected water? Either the X or the M will be fine. Choose the one that is in best condition and needs the least amount of upgrades and don't focus so much on the keel type. Absolutely pick the one that has the best interior for you. It won't really matter if you are just concerned about the shallows - the shallows are probably sand where he is talking about. Others have said one sails better than the other. Listen to that advise, but it really doesn't matter.

I only object when the boat is sold as off-shore capable and all-around high performance sail boat. Dabble with off-shore? Ok, I'm sure you can get away with it but it probably won't be enjoyable in the Atlantic off the New Jersey coast. The inlets aren't really a great place for a lightweight boat and there is no easy way out into the Atlantic. @Dsine doesn't really talk a whole lot about off-shore but he does mention the concern for safety. IMO, a big engine on a light-weight, un-balanced boat (tons of windage) in high wind doesn't really speak to safety if he actually thinks he will be making day sails in the Atlantic. But, believe the advertising, ignore common sense (and the warnings in the owners manual) … it makes no difference to me.

Jim26m · Oct 29, 2019

Yep. Kinda the classic Mac hater bash, except you had actually been on one, albeit while becalmed. No biggie, though. I'm used to it. Your post was on point regarding his need to nail down type of use, though. Your points were not lost in the bashing.

Back to one of the original post questions. If you use the boat in shallows and feel likely to ground it from time to time, a swing keel will generally tolerate it better. My dagger is fiberglass and will break if you hit it just right. Even with a weighted dagger or centerboard like the WW Potter, you may not break the centerboard, but could damage the trunk. Not to say that you can't tear up a swing keel if you have it grounded in a chop and let it bash. But, if you're just worried about a quick, forward motion, grounding, a swing keel would be my recommendation.

Mr Fox · Oct 29, 2019

Scott T-Bird said:
Ok, I suppose I come across as a hater

Scott, how you gonna hate on "THE WORLD’S BEST SELLING CRUISING SAILBOAT "

Totally agree with you, that sales brochure makes me think I can cross the atlantic towing a waterskier while using the amazingly private head and eating nachos (sorry I'm heading off the rails of the question here but that brochure is hilarious). For a beginning sailor with that boat sandbar sleepover sounds like a perfect use, or fiddling around on a large lake?

If it's tender with lots of windage, it's probably not a good choice good for a first time boat. I think the quirky ones are best left alone until you really know what you are doing and know what you want out of a boat.

Dee- looks like Scott has first hand knowledge of the conditions you will be sailing in, I'd listen to his advice on what boats are good first timers in NJ. You will have a lot more fun if you feel safe when the wind picks up.

markwbird · Oct 29, 2019

DrJudyB said:
I gotta ask.... how many of the people who have opinions about MacGregor 26 M&X have actually spent time aboard one on the water?

I’ve been on a 26 X or two, and while it’s not the right boat for me, they do allow a combination of sailing and high speed motoring. I have dozens of friends all across the country who have Enjoyed some fabulous vacations on them. . They are fair weather, inshore or coastal sailboats. If you need to get somewhere safe in high winds, you can fire up the big motor and get to your destination really fast at 15 kts or more.

They are motor sailors. That’s what they do.

That's right. I agree. We do, however, get quite a few folks who are "new to sailing" looking to buy a boat and the 26X seems to come up a lot. I am never sure those folks know that these are motor sailors and it seems like they should know that.

jssailem · Oct 29, 2019

It is really perspective. Everyone is looking for the "Perfect Boat". And if they find it they are happy, till they see the next "Perfect Boat"?

Then they start to see the imperfect parts of the boat they bought.

The perfect boat is a Unicorn.

Find a boat. Any boat, even if it is just a dinghy. Get out on the water and try to enjoy the experience. This will give you some perspective on what you feel and think you want. Then move up to your next boat.

I was told as I looked and appraised the features and qualities of the boat I was considering. "John you need to think of this as your transition boat!" I was transitioning from a trailer sailer that I had loved for 20 years.

Do I want another boat? Well on occasion. Who doesn't like bright shiny things? But now I can see differences (perspective) in the bright shiny things and I weigh it against the many elements of a boat purchase. Price, repairs, changes, new toys, sleeping arrangements, missing hardware etc. The list is long and complicated.

Then, I walk down the dock and see "My Boat". With all her imperfections and I forget about the shiny stuff and get on the boat. Feel her move in the slip. I untie the lines and we go for a sail.

It is that last part that is the best. It is what makes my Boat perfect.

It is what you buy a boat to do. All the rest is just stuff.

So do it, @Dsine grab something and go for a sail.

JRT · Oct 29, 2019

Agree, our first boat was just to get us out, have fun, learn, and figure out what worked for the family.

Scott T-Bird · Oct 29, 2019

@Dsine, it sounds like you have narrowed your focus on the Mac 26X or 26M because you have a pretty good budget for a live-able (a few days) sailboat that is newer than Year 2000, and it will provide you with comfort, engine power, and will be trailerable so that you have easier access to the variety of locations you can find in New Jersey. Those are some good objectives and all pretty good reasons for focusing on those 2 boats. You seem to be interested in the differences between the centerboard 26X model and the newer 26M daggerboard model.

You will spend more money for a newer boat if you buy the M. You will find very similar boats that are probably not in such new condition but for far less money if you shop for the X. The difference between the centerboard and the daggerboard will probably not matter nearly as much as the comfort factor when you are comparing boats. It sounds like Macgregor considers that the daggerboard is an improvement because the centerboard is noisier and more prone to maintenance problems. If it comes down to those factors, I would probably favor the daggerboard. I guess I would be most influenced by how the keels impact the interior rather than on what happens when they touch the sand bottom.

The M definitely sounds like it has better performance features for both sailing and motoring, so I would probably prefer the M for your uses. (I read how the rudders are improved and the motor positioning is improved for the M.) It also sounds like the motor options for these boats varies from 50 hp to 70 hp. I can't think of any reason for a performance preference between the outboard options that you find are available. They are all going to be about the same, I think. The motor options probably come down to personal preferences and experiences. If you think of this boat as a sailboat, I don't know why you would be concerned at all about the differences between the outboard engines that you will find.

What it really comes down to is your own shopping experience. You will have to see what is on the market and start comparing the pros and cons for the individual boats that are for sale. It's not like you can get really specific right now about what kind of keel or how much HP will the engine be. Your choices are going to be limited to what is available in the marketplace. Take a look at individual boats. When you see the ones you think you like, then ask questions about the particular components that are included. For instance, a reliable 50 HP engine is going to be far more preferable than a sketchy 70 HP engine when you find out whom has been taking better care of the engine.

DrJudyB · Oct 29, 2019

>>> Do you plan to store the boat over the winter at the boatyard on a cradle, or at home on a trailer?

Sleeping comfortably for 2 and sometimes 4, for weekending at the marina or very sheltered inlets
newer than 2000 and comes with a trailer,
Shoal draft so you can jump off in shallow water below the waist
Under $23k including necessary upgrades.

Don't forget that .... Condition is everything!!! A 20 year old boat with lots of stuff less than 5-8 years old is worth a lot more than one that hasn't had a recent refitting.

many used boats come with non-torn but stretched out sails that will need replacement to get acceptable performance.
- Allow $2500-3000 for new sails of good quality, nothing fancy.
Bottom paint? New bottom paint will cost you $1500-2500.
What about delivery costs?

..... similar to buying a really good 10 year old car, but needing 4 new tires, a timing chain and a water pump replacement. You have to budget accordingly

Maybe a Catalina 250 Mk2,
Hunter 260?

At the upper end of your price range, the Hunter 27 sounds like a good match. It even has standing headroom.
Check this one out. It sounds almost too good to be true, but maybe they need to sell it fast.

Types of Boats - Boat Trader

Discover different boat types and classes including popular manufacturer brands. Use Boat Trader to find out which boat or yacht is right for you.

www.boattrader.com

My thoughts

You'll want a minimum 25-30 footer or more to sleep 2-4 "comfortably" for a weekend at the marina.
- Please realize that many 25- foot boats with lots of interior room have exterior decks layouts that are not great for walking to the mast or the bow. You have to climb over the cabin top. Wide side decks mean that the interior cabin space will be smaller.
Most 25-30 footers don't have full standing headroom. Are you okay with that? At 35' LOA or more, you can get standing headroom.
If you get a boat with an outboard service is easier. You'll want a minimum 8 hp or 9.9-hp or 15 hp to drive the boat at hull speed in wind and chop.

>>>> Have you done a search at the major boat-for-sale website.
1999 and newer
25 feet and longer
$15,000 to $25,000 (you can usually bargain down a few thousand dollars, even for a very competively priced boat)

dLj · Oct 29, 2019

Wow, the boat DrJudyB just pointed you to looks awesome! You may need to buy a trailer so you could then keep it on a trailer but for the price they are asking, I'd certainly be willing to buy a trailer for it. You can pull that boat with a 3/4 ton pick-up. You may need some oversize permits to haul it up from Florida, but they aren't the hard ones. I'd have to look at each of the states you would have to go through. If you or a friend of yours has a pickup that could be used that would reduce the cost considerably. Otherwise the boat hauling costs would put it up there, with getting a trailer, might put it over budget for you. But that's an amazing deal for that boat, at first glance anyway...

dj

Tally Ho · Oct 29, 2019

DrJudyB said:
I gotta ask.... how many of the people who have opinions about MacGregor 26 M&X have actually spent time aboard one on the water?

I’ve been on a 26 X or two, and while it’s not the right boat for me, they do allow a combination of sailing and high speed motoring. I have dozens of friends all across the country who have Enjoyed some fabulous vacations on them. . They are fair weather, inshore or coastal sailboats. If you need to get somewhere safe in high winds, you can fire up the big motor and get to your destination really fast at 15 kts or more.

They are motor sailors. That’s what they do.

I sailed on a 26X once. I found that:
1) It didn’t sail particularly well
2) It didn’t motor particularly well
3) set up and tear down was a pain

I ended up buying a Hunter280. Great starter boat, 5’ fin keel and she sailed in lots of wind and weather on Lake Michigan. and kept it in a slip so I didn’t have to waste hours setting up and tearing it down every time I wanted to sail.,

Greg

Crazy Dave Condon · Oct 30, 2019

@Dsine
As a former sailboat dealer representing many lines of smaller boats, a lot has been discussed which you have touched upon as to wants but not entirely. I used to ask questions that would make buyers answer their own questions which worked well as to what new comers were looking for. I am retired but if you want a dealer perspective feel free to send a private message to me
Crazy Dave Condon

First time sail boat buyer need your help!

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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