First time H23 retrieval

Kermit · Dec 31, 2013

It's never easy for me, either. I've never loaded mine exactly perfectly. I'm anxious to read responses here.

Your post vs. bio is interesting to me. Your new lady friend introduced you to sailing this Fall but you're also a long-time sailor. Just don't let her know how much you really know! ;-)

Kermit · Dec 31, 2013

wwengelhardt said:
Glad to hear we can both benefit. A bit of an oops on my bio. Kind of an apples and oranges bio. I did the bio, but I was thinking of her when I entered the experience. I made a bit of a tweak to the bio to be a bit more accurate.

Well dang. I had all these other comments saved up to continue the ruse. Take Sailing 101 and impress her with how quickly you're learning. Impress her with your newly-learned sailing lingo. The list could go on and on.

Brian M H23 · Dec 31, 2013

Ok, some tips. I did this a lot of times, alone, and this was my procedure

A) you DO NOT winch hard to pull this boat onto the trailer. the bow eye will rip out. you're very lucky the cable broke instead
B) set up your reciever hitch for a drop if you can
C) extend the tounge

1. Use the winch to help float the boat onto the trailer. check that the boat is centered. double-check for overhead power lines and the mast
2. Pull the truck forward a few feet, so that the boat rises out of the water about 2"
3. give the winch about 6" of slack. The keep should be resting on the boards and the boat will not move
4. continue pulling forward. the bow WILL NOT be touching the bow stop. make sure the boat is centered.
5. block the tires of the trailer. use the trailer nose-wheel to take some of the weight of the trailer. make sure the winch is not tensioned. back up to slide the extension in, replace the pin.
6. if you're going on the highway, get the boat to slide all the way forward. this can be done by gently tensioning the winch and a few hard stops from 4-5 mph to coax the boat forward. I generally used a thick nylon ratchet strap wrapped around the keel to winch post for some pre-tension, the boat would then move rather easily with the brakes
6B. if you're not going on the highway, I would skip this step, becuase it's going to make launching harder too.

7. unstep the mast (a whole other discussion)
8. Use two ratchet straps, one foreward, one aft, to hold the boat down to the trailer.

PS: the trailer goes into the water pretty deep (the bow roller on the trailer needs to be submerged!) and yes, a lot of the weight sits on the board. The alternative would be to have 1000 lbs hanging from the thin fiberglass hull supported on a 2" wide strip of wood.

PPS: getting a drop /extended receiver for launch/retrieve helps, really. the back of the trailer will be plenty deep, getting the front of the trailer deeper in the water is what you need to suceed

Kermit · Dec 31, 2013

Thanks, Brian. The ratchet-around-the-keel tip sounds pretty helpful. Also the dropped hitch tip.

Brian M H23 · Dec 31, 2013

Launching / retrieving with a 93 Ford F-150 w/ 4" drop receiver (frame-mount hitch), the water is roughly 1/3 up my rear tire to get to that point. When you're alone, and unstepping the mast alone after pulling the boat, it's really just not worth struggling to use the winch to try and lift the boat out of the water.

My main advice is to get good at moving the boat forward on the trailer. This boat is not easy to retrieve, and you will come across shallow ramps or low tide where fully loading it in the water is just not possible. Don't get flustered backing the trailer off the ramp, just load it as best you can and shift it forward on dry land.

One more note: the winch post / factory trailer is pretty springy. That's why i pull the boat forward with the ratchet strap/ brake-bumping and winch slack. get it reasonably close, and then if the winch post pulls up to the bow eye (***yes, you are pulling the post up the eye, that winch is NOT moving the boat**) with a reasonable amount of force on the winch, great.
The alternative is that you winch the boat up tight in the water, and when you pull the boat out you'll actually put a measurable flex in the trailer and post, possibly several thousand pounds, all bearing on the bow eye. You'll also think the boat is loaded correctly, when it's shifted backwards a bit and running 30+ lbs light in the tongue weight department
Then, on the highway, the nuts on the bow eye dig into the coring and you go from a tight winch post to the bow porpoising and slamming into the winch post repeatedly for hundreds of miles...

Brian M H23 · Dec 31, 2013

Here's a good photo of my setup. I added a second axle for highway stability. You probably don't have a rear railing; be prepared with something to hold the mast while lowered

inarathree · Jan 1, 2014

Move somewhere warm and leave it in the water.

isaksp00 · Jan 1, 2014

I can't imagine trying to unstep the mast alone. I have rigged some assists for mine (bridle wires to help stabilize the mast from moving side to side) as I had the bottom plate of the mast tear off one time when it tilted. Even so, I need two helpers. That mast is fairly tall and heavy, and when you tilt it back onto the crutch the mast base is pulling up against the pin, as over 50% of the weight is aft of the crutch. I find I need two guys to help hold it down when pulling the pin, then carry it forward. I'd be curious how those who do it alone can handle it. Winching it up and down is easy if you use a gin pole and a block and tackle to one jib sheet winch; that gin pole was not standard, evidently.

Crazy Dave Condon · Jan 1, 2014

Thank you brian. If wengelhardt wants a detailed experience from the old pro, wait a week until I am back from dropping trees for a new home in the mountains and send me an email where to get hold of you. Kermit, let this fellow know who I am .

crazy dave

carboman · Jan 1, 2014

hope this helps.

Chris14830 · Jan 1, 2014

Thank you for taking the time to post your procedure, Brian.

I take my trailer up a homemade ramp:
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/picture.php?albumid=1534&pictureid=10605
I've noticed I have to loosen the cable about 6 inches as the boat goes up, but I just leave the boat back on the trailer and shore the back of the trailer with 4x4's. I've always wondered what I would do if I ever put the trailer on the road. Now I know, thanks.

So, the ice off the stern of my boat is 24 inches thick now, and its supposed to be about -37 degrees C tonight (-35 F). And that's without the windchill. I'm leaving for Florida on Sunday, anyone need crew near Tampa/Clearwater let me know, I should be thawed out by February!
-Chris

Brian M H23 · Jan 1, 2014

isaksp00 said:
I can't imagine trying to unstep the mast alone. I have rigged some assists for mine (bridle wires to help stabilize the mast from moving side to side) as I had the bottom plate of the mast tear off one time when it tilted. Even so, I need two helpers. That mast is fairly tall and heavy, and when you tilt it back onto the crutch the mast base is pulling up against the pin, as over 50% of the weight is aft of the crutch. I find I need two guys to help hold it down when pulling the pin, then carry it forward. I'd be curious how those who do it alone can handle it. Winching it up and down is easy if you use a gin pole and a block and tackle to one jib sheet winch; that gin pole was not standard, evidently.

I rigged "baby stays" to eye-bolts through-bolted in the cabin-top and aligned with the rear pin. Once I drop the mast back into the crutch, I would gently tap the pin out. Because the baby stays were still attached, in order for the butt of the mast to rise, it would also have to slide forward...if i manage to "pop" the pin out, it can rise up, pull itself towards the step get the CG inside the boat, and gently drop to the deck!

Chris, does the boat stay like that all winter? that's a scary looking rig!!!

isaksp00 · Jan 2, 2014

Brian, our boat is up in the Poconos but we live near Phil - where's yours?

My baby stays are rigged to wood supports I built that I lash to the "toerail" using a pair of nylon ratchet straps under the hull - the wood raises the eye bolt to which the stays attach to the level of the mast step. The PO put u-bolts through the deck (not the cabin top), and only then realized they had to be at the level of the step. I didn't want to penetrate the deck again, and also felt I needed to keep the attach points as far outboard as possible.

I never thought of leaving them attached after lowering the mast and while unpinning - good idea. I still feel like it would be tough for me alone to pull that mast forward. I rigged a wood extension that I bolt to the crutch, that has a rubber trailer roller that supports the mast. The spreaders end up aft of the roller, so I need to lift the mast up while pulling forward so these clear. I am thinking maybe leaving this off might actually make it easier.

Chris14830 · Jan 3, 2014

Brian, yes it stays the winter like that for the last 25 years or so. It's more stable than it looks, the ramp is pressure treated 6x6 decked with 2x8s. These are rock anchored to bedrock. The 4x4 and center 6x6 shoring pieces are toe nailed into the ramp each fall. I would love to slide the boat 6 inches forward on the trailer using your trick, but at that angle, it ain't happening!
-Chris

Kermit · Jan 16, 2014

Today was the first time I EVER loaded my H23 satisfactorily! It was already on the trailer but way too far back. We used 2 come-alongs and a heavy strap around the keel to pull it forward. Thanks to BrianM for the tips!

Brian M H23 · Jan 16, 2014

Kermit said:
Today was the first time I EVER loaded my H23 satisfactorily! It was already on the trailer but way too far back. We used 2 come-alongs and a heavy strap around the keel to pull it forward. Thanks to BrianM for the tips!

Looking good Kermit. If you slide a piece of 1x2 on between the top of the tounge and the middle bolt of the bow roller you should be able to catch the bow. Give that bow roller a good smack with a sledgehammer, it should tilt/slide wherever you need it to catch the bow. It's just held onto the frame with friction...i'm not sure how important it is as far as supporting the boat, but it's a great reference when backing the empty trailer into the water

First time H23 retrieval

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