First season sailing ending, looking for next boat!

[Ward H]

First season of sailing is ending, looking for next boat!

Getting close to the end of my first season of sailing. Had some rough starts, you guys got me on the right track, things are coming together and now we just had a blast day sailing for a week.
We have our Newport 17 in a slip at Mariner's Marina in Barnegat NJ. For the past week we rented a house in Love ladies, LBI. LL rental is on a lagoon about 300 yards from BB. Mariner's to our rented house is 4 miles. I sailed across the bay from Mariner's to our rental last Sunday We had full sunshine and wind all week long. We sailed every day and then went back to Mariner's on Friday. Wind was light and our track was direct downwind so we motored the whole way. 20 to 30 minutes out a nice wind kicked up but we had to get into the slip, settle away the boat and take a taxi back to LL so we were envious of the 4 or 5 boats we watched motor out and set sail.
We love the location of Mariner's and sailing on the BB so we plan to stay there next year as well.
If we keep the N17 we will need to make some additional investments for safety:
1. Outboard Motor Bracket - Purchase and install a new motor bracket for the 4 stroke 4HP OB. It's now on the original N17 bracket and the springs give no lift to the motor. I really struggle lifting the outboard while on the water. I have to stand and use a sling to get the OB up. the drag when it is down really makes tacking difficult so I keep having to start it to assist tacking and shutting it off again when tack is complete. (The reason I got a sailboat is I don't like noisy motors)
To mount the new bracket I need to gain access to the inside stern wall and reinforce it.
2. Roller Furling Jib - The foredeck is too small for my big butt to be scrambling over it to hank on a jib. For now I am leaving the jib hanked on, pull jib sheets tight and cleat them and using a sail tie to gather and tie the jib to the downhaul. Works but in stronger winds the jib catches wind. Roller Furler would probably require a new jib.
3. Swing Keel Cleanup - The steel swing keel is heavily spalded and drags in the keel trunk. It needs to be dropped and cleaned up. I have scrapped so much spalded steel off of it I believe the thickness is much lest than original.
My estimate is $1200 to $1500 and that is with me doing the work.

Now, when I bought the N17 the Admiral made me promise I wouldn't ask for a bigger boat.
Now she is hooked on sailing and sees some of the issues with our boat I was able to aproach the subject of a bigger boat that is better suited for our style of sailing and age group. (60 and 64) Then we talked to a guy in a Compac 17. Cathy asked how he liked it and he explained it was a starter boat for him and he was moving up to a bigger boat soon. Cathy asked why and he said "small boats require a lot of work and mobility. A larger boat was much easier on an older body"
On the way back to the slip we looked at an O'Day in a slip near us. Looked to be about 22'. I pointed out several improvements over our boat.
1. Roller Furling Jib 2. Bow pulpit and life lines running to middle of cockpit. 3. More foot room to move around the foredeck. 4. Larger companion way and hatch would make it easier to enter the cabin. 5. Much larger cockpit with flat floor. 6. Boom was higher over cockpit giving more headroom. 7. Easy to run halyards back to cockpit.

Timing is everything because she agreed that before we invest anymore into the Newport we should price a boat like the O'Day.


Here are a couple of photos of the O'Day we looked at. I did start another thread asking for help in identifying that boat.

 

[Douglast]

Re: First season of sailing is ending, looking for next boat

that oday 22 is a real nice boat...its a substantial upgrade even from our 21 footer...we have one beside us in our marina..yep you would love that boat

 

[kenn]

Your reasons for upsizing are sound and realistic. A fellow Sandpiper owner (same age range as you) has upsized for the same reasons, mainly for his wife's comfort aboard. He's now sailing an O'Day 23 and that boat's interior is markedly different from our 19' Sandpiper. In the O'Day, it seems there's a place for things; you don't have to keep shifting stuff around when it's time to sleep. You even get a partitioned-off head! Oh, luxury! (and he spent a whole winter redoing the interior, building a sliding galley, dimmable LED-strip lighting...)

I don't think you'll find as large a difference in sailing performance; a 22' or 23' will still be a lively boat, unless you deliberately choose a heavier, poorer-sailing model (bo-ring)

Be warned that as the boat gets bigger, all costs increase, especially if you can no longer trailer-launch her.

Our Sandpiper has basic furling, most lines led to the cockpit, and everything working to par, so she's still a delight to sail. Mind you, we're still kids (mid 50s)

 

[RedRex]

Hi Ward,
While you're around Mariners you might want to look at the hunter25 I have for sale there. She's been on the hard for a good while now and needs a good cleaning. Other than that,bottom paint,new battery and you're good to go. Priced to move and will consider offers. Glad you had a good season.
Regards,
Red

 

[Ward H]

kenn, we won't be sleeping on board so removable port a potty is the only reason for the cabin.If there is anything there it probably won't get used. Would rather not have mechanicals that require any upkeep.
We want something sporty but not too tender.

Red, what's the name of your boat? I will check it out next time we are there.

 

[SceptreSailor]

Re: First season of sailing is ending, looking for next boat

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=3264&url=

 

[Joe]

I wouldn't spend any money or time on the Newport 17 if you're going to get rid of it....not a lot of demand and you won't recoup the additional investment.

Since you are only looking for a daysailor with no overnight features.. I'd stay under 22 ft... but I'd definitely jump to 20+.... therefore you should pass on the compact 17... There are many, many cool boats in that category. Since you will be slipping the boat much of the time..... I'd go with a fixed keel, because they're more stable and won't requirea as much acrobatics to keep upright.

Regarding the list of fixes you posted....... adding a jib downhaul will make you're life easier and avoid the expense of adding a furler and modifying your existing sail. I'm not sure how your slip is configured, but you might be able to hank on the sail while standing on the dock. The downhaul will allow you to control the jib's drop from the cockpit and also secure the sail on deck, so you'll no longer need to tie it down.

The jib downhaul is very easy to rig, and inexpensive. You'll need enough 1/8 inch braided line to reach the top of the jib at full hoist..... down to the tack the back to the cockpit. You'll need a small block tied or shackled on or near the tack fitting. You should also have at least one fairlead, screwed to the deck or mounted on a lifeline stanchion, about halfway back....... and finally a small clam cleat to secure the control line. Locate the downhaul line so you can control the halyard and downhaul at the same time.....

On my boat, I steer with the tiller between my knees, halyard in left hand and downhaul in the right..... I pull the sail down as I steer underneath it with my knees. This works on well going downwind with the headsail in the shadow of the main, or upwind by luffing up momentarily as needed.

Controlling the halyard and downhaul allow me to deposit the sail neatly and securely on the foredeck. Use a buntline hitch to tie the downhaul to the top hank's piston (not the headboard) to avoid the knot working loose or the head of the sail to fold over.

The main reason I spent so much time on this subject is to encourage you not to place a high priority on roller furling when looking for a boat in this size range.

 

[finding41]

Go big.

Hi Ward. When I first started looking a sailboats for my family I thought a 17' would be great. Theirs only 3 of us and one isin't 4' tall yet. We have all the stuff for camping already. Just throw it all in the boat and go. A smaller boat is lighter. Right.
Well I started asking around at marinas and got out to look at a few boats I found on line. The overwhelming response from every person I talked to was get a boat big enough for your family to grow into.
Get something with enough room to stay on and leave the camping stuff home. Make sure there's a a nice enough and easy to use head with privacy!
A bigger trailerable sailboat is just as easy to sail as a small one.
So I adjusted my parameters and started looking at the MacGregor line of boats. First I thought, Hmm a 21' looks perfect. Except, no standing head room...
I finally decided on a MacGregor 26D or S or X.
I got a 26D. I love it! My family loves it. It is the best purchase I have ever made! I race against the small boats now and win sometimes! We use it like a floating cottage!
All and all it is everything we need. Lots of room for everything even when Squeaky grows up. The only reason to go bigger now would just be.... well I can't think of any reason that we wouldn't be having to compromise too much to go bigger.

 

[RedRex]

Hi Ward,
Her name is Cygnus, sits out front last time I was there. Comes with rigging assistance and sailing demo or two if you like her. The office has the key and is brokering the boat.
Thanks for your interest,
Redrex

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Hi Ward,

I echo Joe. It sounds like you find sailing an activity that your wife and you are very enthusiastic about, so it won't pay to short-change your enjoyment. Sailing a larger boat will be much more comfortable for aging bodies than your current boat. The purchase price does not need to be limiting, as there are numerous boats on the market. You will find slightly more work and expense in maintaining a boat that is 20+ feet.

There are numerous differences in boats as they exceed 20 feet, so be sure to pay attention to the details of the models that you are looking at. That O'Day in the photos looks to have a nice sized cockpit and small cabin. This seems to suit your desires, but a nice cabin does give you a place to get out of the sun and weather more comfortably.

Have fun looking ... I don't think you will regret moving up to a larger size!

 

[Ward H]

I appreciate all the advice here. While I fully agree bigger may be better, I need to offset that with the bigger the boat, the higher the maint and slip costs. Our budget is limited but I think we can improve upon what we have now.
Off course the Admirals' comfort is a high priority. She just needs to see what she is missing, what she can gain and what's within our budget.

 

[sinnettc]

That Oday seems like a nice boat, though I haven't actually seen one sailing that I know of. Still, they've (Oday) been around forever and the 19's are good sailors.

I'll make a plug for a Capri 22, though they don't have standing headroom. Fast, fun & usually a dry ride. Worth the bux if you can find one. Fin over wing if you've got depth for a 4' fin. Tall rig if you live in a light air area, otherwise standard rig. We upgraded from a Capri 16.5 day sailor to our Capri 22 and love it!

The Montgomery 19 seems nice too, with high freeboard and a deep cabin if that's what your wife is looking for. Not my style but a nice boat from what I've seen. Might be worth a look if you can find one.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

look at the older 'pure sailboat' macgregor 26's. (not power sailors) -huge little boats. and fairly cheap.

of course I'm biased.

 

[Chris Patterson]

I'm not making a suggestion to one boat or the other, but reading this made me recall an incidence I find appealing.
A fellow that I know bought a sizable boat, that "in it's day", was a nicely fitted out sailing vessel. He bought it semi neglected, spend a dollar on the little put-put diesel, and started sailing the living dog crap out of it. Short of cleaning it up a little, he closed down all of the sea-cocks, turned off the power, and doesn't really use any of it. Now, I truly admire a bare-bones sailor, it appeals to my sense of simplicity, but he more or less decided that he wasn't buying into the onboard ice cubes, watermaker, air-conditioning, etc hyperbole. And while I am not one iota disparaging any of these systems, (I have a larger boat with all this and more), he fools with one little thing at a time. The missus decided she wanted a pot, he repaired the one he has. I think he's kind of eye-balling the water system now, simply out of the need to do something on the boat, but the point of all of this is, is he has the platform to work with. If any, or all of these complicated systems entertain him down the road, it's simply a matter of making it work. On a Sunfish, a porta-potti is kind of going to stick out on the fore deck.
It's a lot easier to expand the house if it's sitting on an acre of land, as apposed to it sitting on a small lot, where the option simply isn't there..

 

[Pat T]

Next boat

Ward,
You convinced me that you need a bigger boat. Go for it, especially while the Admiral is on your side. The Oday pictured does appear to have a small cabin. I can remember being on a 22 Catalina long ago with nice room below. A good size cabin might be a good selling point for the Admiral too especially when you get caught out in hard rain. I can understand budgets too but if you were able to swing a 25 ft boat you would not be sorry. I like so many others started with a smaller boat. Good luck.

 

[Nicktulloh]

There's a beautiful Compac 23 at Atwood Lake, OH. Take a look on Craigslist. $4900. Highly recommend the Compacs. Great owners' forum. Still being produced. I have a 19/2 and love it.