I have always appreciated the advice from this forum. Now I come to you with what I am guessing is a mistake on my part. Over the winter I had the boat yard install a Ray Marine wind system. Quote was for $1900. I agreed as this was beyond my skill level as a new boat owner. I received a bill for $3500 the other day. They did inform me of having difficulty with the install. However, not one mention of such a significant increase in price. I will speak to the owners this week. Not sure what else to do. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Guilt
You're probably over a barrel given what I expect are the disclaimers on the estimate. Remember, however, a boat isn't a car and it's entirely possible to run into some nasty roadblocks. So, I figure imparting some guilt may be the best tactic. By that I mean going in and asking what you should have done differently to get a better estimate, what the nature of the complication was, where the cash difference was, how to avoid your wife killing you, etc. Maybe they'll make a deal, especially if they think you are a returning customer (assuming you have a choice). So, how much was the wind system itself? I'm guessing a grand. Regardless, good luck, but try negotiating first. Rick D.
You're probably over a barrel given what I expect are the disclaimers on the estimate. Remember, however, a boat isn't a car and it's entirely possible to run into some nasty roadblocks. So, I figure imparting some guilt may be the best tactic. By that I mean going in and asking what you should have done differently to get a better estimate, what the nature of the complication was, where the cash difference was, how to avoid your wife killing you, etc. Maybe they'll make a deal, especially if they think you are a returning customer (assuming you have a choice). So, how much was the wind system itself? I'm guessing a grand. Regardless, good luck, but try negotiating first. Rick D.
Thanks Rick
Thanks for the input. Took one on the chin...lesson learned. Tell wife when she's in a good mood. Happy Sailing!
Thanks for the input. Took one on the chin...lesson learned. Tell wife when she's in a good mood. Happy Sailing!
Agree ... let them know how you feel
Good advice, plus I'd make sure the owner knows you are unhappy that the estimate was so far off, and particularly that no one flagged you as to what trhe increase would be when they ran into trouble. Also, you have a right to a detailed bill showing exactly what was done, and tpo ask why. Some yards are so used to dealing with very rich owners, they assume the blank check is there. I had a similar experience with a yard. They ended up making a minor adjustment to the bill after I made it clear I was unhappy with their service and lack of communication. I also never went back, even though it is a yard known for quality work. I found a yard that does equally good work, and keeps me informed. Since then, when I am in a yard I always tell the yard manager and the owner if he is around, that it is very important to me to be able to plan on the estimates, and not to be surprised. Good luck ... Sanders
Good advice, plus I'd make sure the owner knows you are unhappy that the estimate was so far off, and particularly that no one flagged you as to what trhe increase would be when they ran into trouble. Also, you have a right to a detailed bill showing exactly what was done, and tpo ask why. Some yards are so used to dealing with very rich owners, they assume the blank check is there. I had a similar experience with a yard. They ended up making a minor adjustment to the bill after I made it clear I was unhappy with their service and lack of communication. I also never went back, even though it is a yard known for quality work. I found a yard that does equally good work, and keeps me informed. Since then, when I am in a yard I always tell the yard manager and the owner if he is around, that it is very important to me to be able to plan on the estimates, and not to be surprised. Good luck ... Sanders
poor estimate
Tom, I make the observation that since the original estimate was $1900 dollars and the bill was $3500 that is a $1600 dollar difference. At $100 per hour that is two days work ! ! This is not just a little off this is A LOT off. I will assume this is all labor since the original cost estimate included parts. I could understand a couple of hours difference but not a couple of days. You need to sit down with the yard management and have a very serious discussion. they will need to detail the extra work and if it was me I would ask for a full justification of labor including all the work orders and time punches for the person (or persons) working on your boat. Personaly I would tell the owner/manager that they should be ashamed of themselves to be SOOO far off on an estimate. You may have to pay the bill to release your boat but I would not do so with out a fight. If you are not satisfied with what ever you can work out with the owners/managers I would file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and make sure the yard knows you will tell EVERYONE and ANYONE who will listen about your experience. Just my opinion....
Tom, I make the observation that since the original estimate was $1900 dollars and the bill was $3500 that is a $1600 dollar difference. At $100 per hour that is two days work ! ! This is not just a little off this is A LOT off. I will assume this is all labor since the original cost estimate included parts. I could understand a couple of hours difference but not a couple of days. You need to sit down with the yard management and have a very serious discussion. they will need to detail the extra work and if it was me I would ask for a full justification of labor including all the work orders and time punches for the person (or persons) working on your boat. Personaly I would tell the owner/manager that they should be ashamed of themselves to be SOOO far off on an estimate. You may have to pay the bill to release your boat but I would not do so with out a fight. If you are not satisfied with what ever you can work out with the owners/managers I would file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and make sure the yard knows you will tell EVERYONE and ANYONE who will listen about your experience. Just my opinion....
I agree with Pete
Being 85% over their estimate requires justification. They should have gotten your OK to proceed when they ran into trouble. Installing wind equipment is fairly straight forward. They should have come out to your boat to get an idea of how they were going to install it before the estimate. I agree, you can run into difficulties doing any job on a ~15 yr old boat but that should have been built into the estimate. Your argument should include the fact that if the estimate was $3500 you wouldn't have had the work done. These guys are supposed to be professionals and you count on them for guidance since you are not in the marine industry. As professionals you trusted their $1900 estimate was accurate and agreed to the work. I wouldn't go down without a fight. You may burn a bridge and you have to weigh that against future ramifications and make your judgement as to how much of a fight you want to put up. I would at least express my disappointment in no uncertain terms.
Being 85% over their estimate requires justification. They should have gotten your OK to proceed when they ran into trouble. Installing wind equipment is fairly straight forward. They should have come out to your boat to get an idea of how they were going to install it before the estimate. I agree, you can run into difficulties doing any job on a ~15 yr old boat but that should have been built into the estimate. Your argument should include the fact that if the estimate was $3500 you wouldn't have had the work done. These guys are supposed to be professionals and you count on them for guidance since you are not in the marine industry. As professionals you trusted their $1900 estimate was accurate and agreed to the work. I wouldn't go down without a fight. You may burn a bridge and you have to weigh that against future ramifications and make your judgement as to how much of a fight you want to put up. I would at least express my disappointment in no uncertain terms.
been there
I had a similar experience. I had an estimate for replacing the cutless bearing. When I got the bill, it was double. When I asked why, they said, "We had trouble getting the old bearing out." I guess they never had trouble with one before. I would have OK'd the work if they had called me, but I was PO'd that they didn't call. Apparently boat yards aren't bound by the same rules as car repair shops.
I had a similar experience. I had an estimate for replacing the cutless bearing. When I got the bill, it was double. When I asked why, they said, "We had trouble getting the old bearing out." I guess they never had trouble with one before. I would have OK'd the work if they had called me, but I was PO'd that they didn't call. Apparently boat yards aren't bound by the same rules as car repair shops.
Shocking
Thanks for all the posts. I was really shocked when I recieved the bill. Spoke with a few other sailors and all have had similar experiences. Personally, I would have said no to the job and looked harder into doing the work myself.
Thanks for all the posts. I was really shocked when I recieved the bill. Spoke with a few other sailors and all have had similar experiences. Personally, I would have said no to the job and looked harder into doing the work myself.
Which boat yard?
I think it would be a public service if you let us know the name of the boat yard (if the forum rules allow it). Or, you may want to wait until after you negotiate the bill.
I think it would be a public service if you let us know the name of the boat yard (if the forum rules allow it). Or, you may want to wait until after you negotiate the bill.
Get Quote In Writing!
Tom, did you get written quotes? If you did, and the Service Manager did not call you for any problems, my advice would be to cut a check for $1900.00. Unless that price includes storage for the boat being out of the water. As an owner of a auto repair shop, when we encounter a problem of any kind on a customers car, we stop and make a phone call. Our boat is on the hard as I write this response. My boat yard put all proposed work on a quoted estimate, with a place for my signature at the bottom. Of course, it helps to know the man you are doing business with. I concer with fellow boaters here, don't go down without a fight. Around here we call that type of business "Jessie James" without a gun. Good luck. Robert "As Time Goes By" Hunter 31 St. Louis, MO.
Tom, did you get written quotes? If you did, and the Service Manager did not call you for any problems, my advice would be to cut a check for $1900.00. Unless that price includes storage for the boat being out of the water. As an owner of a auto repair shop, when we encounter a problem of any kind on a customers car, we stop and make a phone call. Our boat is on the hard as I write this response. My boat yard put all proposed work on a quoted estimate, with a place for my signature at the bottom. Of course, it helps to know the man you are doing business with. I concer with fellow boaters here, don't go down without a fight. Around here we call that type of business "Jessie James" without a gun. Good luck. Robert "As Time Goes By" Hunter 31 St. Louis, MO.
OVERCHARGE
Question 1: Did they give you a written quote? Question 2: Do they accept credit cards? Question 3: Is your boat still in their possesion? Question 4: Was it a quote or an estimate? I would ask for an explantion for the increased cost. Time x men x $. I would ask for a detailed invoice of the work. Most yards keep a job log of time and materials spent on each project. Was the mast up or down? Did they have to use a rigger and a crane? If they accept plastic, pay it then dispute the chargeswith your credit card company, or pay it and take them to small claims court.
Question 1: Did they give you a written quote? Question 2: Do they accept credit cards? Question 3: Is your boat still in their possesion? Question 4: Was it a quote or an estimate? I would ask for an explantion for the increased cost. Time x men x $. I would ask for a detailed invoice of the work. Most yards keep a job log of time and materials spent on each project. Was the mast up or down? Did they have to use a rigger and a crane? If they accept plastic, pay it then dispute the chargeswith your credit card company, or pay it and take them to small claims court.
update
Thanks for all the advice. Greatly appeciated. I went down to the boat yard in person and spoke with the yard manager and the owner. I showed the quote I was given for $1910.00. I also stated I was never sent a revised quote. They were both very pleasant. The owner said he would look into it and send me a new bill in the mail. I have had some work done by the yard previously. Never any problems. I am hoping this was a mistake.
Thanks for all the advice. Greatly appeciated. I went down to the boat yard in person and spoke with the yard manager and the owner. I showed the quote I was given for $1910.00. I also stated I was never sent a revised quote. They were both very pleasant. The owner said he would look into it and send me a new bill in the mail. I have had some work done by the yard previously. Never any problems. I am hoping this was a mistake.
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