We are in the market for our first sailboat. Recently we came across a 1976 Columbia 26 and a 1976 O'Day 25. Both are in decent condition The O'Day is several thousand dollars less. What should we be looking for? We don't want to find out we saved now but are going to PAY later. *o Thanks, Lynn
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Using your new boat
Hi Lynn, There are lots of theories on buying your first new boat. Consider some of these: What are you going to use it for? An ocasional day sail is one thing, an over night is another. Spending a week or more may require more creature comforts and more safty features. How soon will you be selling this new boat? Are you sure you want to sail? Or is this an attempt to find out if you will like it? Since this is your first boat, spending less is probably wise. But if you have experience on other boats as crew, then going all out for what you really want may be wise. You may want to go to a marina, walk around, talk to some folks about what they have and ask them to share in their experience. Do ou want to keep it in a marina which restricts where you can go or do you want to trailor, giving you more freedom to go more places. Are you sailing alone, with one other or a crew? Size of the boat may matter. Racing or crusing? Do you need a fin, wing, or swing keel? How deep is the water you will be sailing/anchoring in? Lastly, think about what your budget is. What is the budget to buy and what is the budge to put the boat into the condition you want it in to be comfortable. My first boat was a 21' Clipper Marine. I kept it one year and moved all the way up to a 22' O'Day. Kept that for five years and then on to a 27' O'day. One year later I found myself wanting to go further, sail more confortable and be safer -- so on to a 35' O'Day. Had I had more money and more knowledge that I'd take this on as a passion, I could have skipped one or two of those boats. As someone else said, if you miss one boat, there is another one out there for sale. Best of luck. Paul Affinity, Chestertown, Maryland
Hi Lynn, There are lots of theories on buying your first new boat. Consider some of these: What are you going to use it for? An ocasional day sail is one thing, an over night is another. Spending a week or more may require more creature comforts and more safty features. How soon will you be selling this new boat? Are you sure you want to sail? Or is this an attempt to find out if you will like it? Since this is your first boat, spending less is probably wise. But if you have experience on other boats as crew, then going all out for what you really want may be wise. You may want to go to a marina, walk around, talk to some folks about what they have and ask them to share in their experience. Do ou want to keep it in a marina which restricts where you can go or do you want to trailor, giving you more freedom to go more places. Are you sailing alone, with one other or a crew? Size of the boat may matter. Racing or crusing? Do you need a fin, wing, or swing keel? How deep is the water you will be sailing/anchoring in? Lastly, think about what your budget is. What is the budget to buy and what is the budge to put the boat into the condition you want it in to be comfortable. My first boat was a 21' Clipper Marine. I kept it one year and moved all the way up to a 22' O'Day. Kept that for five years and then on to a 27' O'day. One year later I found myself wanting to go further, sail more confortable and be safer -- so on to a 35' O'Day. Had I had more money and more knowledge that I'd take this on as a passion, I could have skipped one or two of those boats. As someone else said, if you miss one boat, there is another one out there for sale. Best of luck. Paul Affinity, Chestertown, Maryland
Give us some more info
Lynn- If you can answer some of Paul's questions, I'm sure the board would be happy to help. Brad
Lynn- If you can answer some of Paul's questions, I'm sure the board would be happy to help. Brad
More
Lynn, I just read someone else on the board that had some great advise. Buy the best boat you can with all the toys you want because to put something new on a boat cost twice as much. Case in point -- I want a Dodger and a GPS. To install an $850 GPS one installer wants $1200, labor two men for 8 hours at $75 per hour. That is a bit much so I am still looking.
Lynn, I just read someone else on the board that had some great advise. Buy the best boat you can with all the toys you want because to put something new on a boat cost twice as much. Case in point -- I want a Dodger and a GPS. To install an $850 GPS one installer wants $1200, labor two men for 8 hours at $75 per hour. That is a bit much so I am still looking.
Informed opinion
Have someone who knows what he is looking at evaluate the condition of both boats. Each is a good design - you wouldn't be sorry for buying either one, but if one is going to need sails soon and the other isn't, or one needs deck or bottom repairs and the other doesn't, that would be enough to decide the issue. You probably want something you can sail now, rather than spend the next year working on. Make sure all systems are working properly and that you won't have to buy a bunch of new hardware/cordage/etc. soon after purchasing the boat. Both are solid, respected boats that you would not be embarrassed to own if in good shape.
Have someone who knows what he is looking at evaluate the condition of both boats. Each is a good design - you wouldn't be sorry for buying either one, but if one is going to need sails soon and the other isn't, or one needs deck or bottom repairs and the other doesn't, that would be enough to decide the issue. You probably want something you can sail now, rather than spend the next year working on. Make sure all systems are working properly and that you won't have to buy a bunch of new hardware/cordage/etc. soon after purchasing the boat. Both are solid, respected boats that you would not be embarrassed to own if in good shape.
Boat use
The boat would occasionlly be used for an overnight but mostly day sailing. My husband is the experience sailor but has never owned his own boat. We were thinking of the $4000 price range to start. Upgrading would not be considered until after we put our kids through college in about 5 years. We would like to keep it at a marina which is a short run out the bay to the open ocean. Are there any significant differences in the Columbia or O'Day that would influence a new buyer. Thanks.
The boat would occasionlly be used for an overnight but mostly day sailing. My husband is the experience sailor but has never owned his own boat. We were thinking of the $4000 price range to start. Upgrading would not be considered until after we put our kids through college in about 5 years. We would like to keep it at a marina which is a short run out the bay to the open ocean. Are there any significant differences in the Columbia or O'Day that would influence a new buyer. Thanks.
consider a Catalina 25
for the 4k you want to spend you will end up with alot more boat than the two you mentioned. also there are many, many, Catalina sailors and they love to talk shop!
for the 4k you want to spend you will end up with alot more boat than the two you mentioned. also there are many, many, Catalina sailors and they love to talk shop!
For mostly day sailing get a daysailor
Everything depends upon everything but a daysailer that is lively and fun to sail would be more fun than a small overnighter. You can always use a tent on shore to overnight. If you are sailing in warm water an unballasted daysailer would be even better. A 28 year old boat probably has some problems. With a daysailer you could store it on a trailer and use the money saved to buy a newer boat. Plus you could easily haul it somewhere on the weekends or vacation.
Everything depends upon everything but a daysailer that is lively and fun to sail would be more fun than a small overnighter. You can always use a tent on shore to overnight. If you are sailing in warm water an unballasted daysailer would be even better. A 28 year old boat probably has some problems. With a daysailer you could store it on a trailer and use the money saved to buy a newer boat. Plus you could easily haul it somewhere on the weekends or vacation.
Depends on the shape the boats are in!
Look for deck that are not spongey. That a big problem. How are the sails. what shape is the motor in. How does the mast and rigging look. How does the boat fit your needs. How are the sail control lines run. Do you like the layout. Does the cabin meet your need. Most of all when you look at the boat, does it look good to you!
Look for deck that are not spongey. That a big problem. How are the sails. what shape is the motor in. How does the mast and rigging look. How does the boat fit your needs. How are the sail control lines run. Do you like the layout. Does the cabin meet your need. Most of all when you look at the boat, does it look good to you!
Buy a book first
Lynn All of these answers have been really helpful, however, if you wander into a marine bookstore, or look on the web, there are at least a half a dozen "How To Evaluate and How to Buy" a used sailboat. That could be the best $25 you'd spend to answer your questions. I also agree on a Catalina 25. I had one for 11 years, and a C22 before that. Catalina owners are very helpful. Good luck Stu
Lynn All of these answers have been really helpful, however, if you wander into a marine bookstore, or look on the web, there are at least a half a dozen "How To Evaluate and How to Buy" a used sailboat. That could be the best $25 you'd spend to answer your questions. I also agree on a Catalina 25. I had one for 11 years, and a C22 before that. Catalina owners are very helpful. Good luck Stu
Practical Sailor
puts out an annual publication of a collection of reviews of a number of popular boats. I think both of your candidate boats are listed along with quite a few competitive models in the same size / price range. Can't recall the name, but its listed on the Practical Sailor website.
puts out an annual publication of a collection of reviews of a number of popular boats. I think both of your candidate boats are listed along with quite a few competitive models in the same size / price range. Can't recall the name, but its listed on the Practical Sailor website.
The name of the book(s)
Practical Sailor published the two volume set "Practical Boat Buying" that has some excellent reviews of boats on the used market. However, they occasionally have an axe to grind (read the review of the Catalina 22, for example), they leave out a lot of really good boats, and a neophyte can be overwhelmed with the information there. There are a number of well built, decently performing 25-foot boats out there and it is hard to go wrong with a "name" brand. For the kind of money you are talking about, any of the boats mentioned would suit your purposes, and even if you hated it and decided to sell, how much could you get hurt? Don't spend 3 years searching for perfection - buy one, sail it, figure out what features you like and don't like, and when you shop for that 28 footer you'll have a much better idea of what features mean the most to you.
Practical Sailor published the two volume set "Practical Boat Buying" that has some excellent reviews of boats on the used market. However, they occasionally have an axe to grind (read the review of the Catalina 22, for example), they leave out a lot of really good boats, and a neophyte can be overwhelmed with the information there. There are a number of well built, decently performing 25-foot boats out there and it is hard to go wrong with a "name" brand. For the kind of money you are talking about, any of the boats mentioned would suit your purposes, and even if you hated it and decided to sell, how much could you get hurt? Don't spend 3 years searching for perfection - buy one, sail it, figure out what features you like and don't like, and when you shop for that 28 footer you'll have a much better idea of what features mean the most to you.
Catalina
Catalina has a well organized owner support group. Catalina is still in business so there is still support available from the factory. Parts and sails, both new and used, are more plentiful. Plus the price is better. It's a no-brainer to me.
Catalina has a well organized owner support group. Catalina is still in business so there is still support available from the factory. Parts and sails, both new and used, are more plentiful. Plus the price is better. It's a no-brainer to me.
I had a Columbia 26...
for 8 years. I sailed it all over Galveston Bay and down the Texas coast. They have a well deserved reputation as a well made, good sailing boat. I truly enjoyed mine and only sold it when I moved up to a 34 footer. I do not know much about Oday's except they too also have a good reputation for good construction and performance. You may post this question on the Columbia and Oday sites. You are probably good with either choice, just consider draft, comfort etc... Good luck, MArc
for 8 years. I sailed it all over Galveston Bay and down the Texas coast. They have a well deserved reputation as a well made, good sailing boat. I truly enjoyed mine and only sold it when I moved up to a 34 footer. I do not know much about Oday's except they too also have a good reputation for good construction and performance. You may post this question on the Columbia and Oday sites. You are probably good with either choice, just consider draft, comfort etc... Good luck, MArc
Here's opposite advise from Droop
I recommend that after doing your homework and that means sailing too, that you buy the largest boat that you can afford right from the get-go. You will be happier, longer.
I recommend that after doing your homework and that means sailing too, that you buy the largest boat that you can afford right from the get-go. You will be happier, longer.
First Boat-large or small
If your sailing will be blue water(ocean) vs lake, I agree totally that you should get a bigger boat. The comfort level, safety, and durability are highly desirable
If your sailing will be blue water(ocean) vs lake, I agree totally that you should get a bigger boat. The comfort level, safety, and durability are highly desirable
used boats
Hello, To be honest, most production boats in the 24-26 range are all the same. The manufacturer may be Hunter, Catalina, Oday, Columbia, S2, Newport, Watkins, C&C, Pearson, Ericson, Islander, etc. You need to determine if you want a trailerable boat or not. You need to determine if you want inboard or outboard power. Otherwise, you need to look at the bigger picture than just which boat is better. Be sure to consider the condition of sails, rigging, interior cushions, engine condition, et. all. I would look at as many boats in a 1 hour drive from home, and buy the nicest one. Don't bother spending a huge amount of time, buy a good boat and sail it! I did a quick search on yachtworld, and found this boat: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1151854&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=2225&url= Good luck! Barry Barry
Hello, To be honest, most production boats in the 24-26 range are all the same. The manufacturer may be Hunter, Catalina, Oday, Columbia, S2, Newport, Watkins, C&C, Pearson, Ericson, Islander, etc. You need to determine if you want a trailerable boat or not. You need to determine if you want inboard or outboard power. Otherwise, you need to look at the bigger picture than just which boat is better. Be sure to consider the condition of sails, rigging, interior cushions, engine condition, et. all. I would look at as many boats in a 1 hour drive from home, and buy the nicest one. Don't bother spending a huge amount of time, buy a good boat and sail it! I did a quick search on yachtworld, and found this boat: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=quick&boat_id=1151854&units=Feet¤cy=USD&access=Public&listing_id=2225&url= Good luck! Barry Barry
Kayaks are OK so is a sunfish
Match up your boat with your desires and realities. I know a doctor who could afford any boat that he wanted. He wanted a super Sunfish. We talked and he said that he liked it up at the lake and at the beach. That he didn't have time or energy for a larger boat. I have a sea kayak as does my wife. we enjoy them at the coast or lake or slow river. we have had four sailboats in 14 years. By far the 18' daysailor was the most fun to sail. But we wanted to sail all year and got a 22' Helsen. The lake was real cold(ice in places) and turning over was not an option. Now we have a Pearson 323 and use it in the Gulf of Mexico. I love the boat but it is not as much fun to sail as my old Laser. But of course it would be hard to take a weeks vacation on a Laser!!! But if we didn't enjoy anchoring out I would have a nice daysailor. A heck of a lot cheaper to own and keep. My first sailboat cost $400.00 I can't even have my present boat hauled,pressure washed and placed on the hard for that!!! It will probably cost that much just for bottom paint!!! I owned my Laser for several years and the only expense was a little varnish and I sold it for almost what I had paid for it.
Match up your boat with your desires and realities. I know a doctor who could afford any boat that he wanted. He wanted a super Sunfish. We talked and he said that he liked it up at the lake and at the beach. That he didn't have time or energy for a larger boat. I have a sea kayak as does my wife. we enjoy them at the coast or lake or slow river. we have had four sailboats in 14 years. By far the 18' daysailor was the most fun to sail. But we wanted to sail all year and got a 22' Helsen. The lake was real cold(ice in places) and turning over was not an option. Now we have a Pearson 323 and use it in the Gulf of Mexico. I love the boat but it is not as much fun to sail as my old Laser. But of course it would be hard to take a weeks vacation on a Laser!!! But if we didn't enjoy anchoring out I would have a nice daysailor. A heck of a lot cheaper to own and keep. My first sailboat cost $400.00 I can't even have my present boat hauled,pressure washed and placed on the hard for that!!! It will probably cost that much just for bottom paint!!! I owned my Laser for several years and the only expense was a little varnish and I sold it for almost what I had paid for it.
p323ms you bring up good points, but ...
I don't disagree with you that small boats are a blast and "closer to the real feel " of sailing. But, it's not for everyone. Lynne hails from Rhode Island, some of the best cruising grounds in North America right at her door step. Water is coldish so flipping a unballasted boat is not fun. There are things we don't know about Lynne and her Husband to recommend a small dinghy class sailboat. 1) are they looking for a boat to be on the water? or are they athletic and want a challenge, possibly getting wet? 2) What about the head facilities? I have a Lightning and a keelboat with a head. My wife likes the lightning alright, but much prefers the bigger boat, even for day sailing, as if nature calls, she is not stuck hanging it over the side in a busy harbor. 3) you mentioned camping with a tent, or boom tent type of arrangement. Do they like camping or are they looking for some creature comforts? 4) unless they want to stay in the bays and harbors they'll really need a larger boat than a daysailor. Lynne, you might already know this. In Newport, you can rent Rhodes 19's by the hour. They are 19 foot, ballasted keel boats with no cabin to speak of. If your at all thinking of a daysailor, rent one of these for while and see if that's what you want. There is plenty of opportunity to take sailing lessons and keelboat certification in R.I. Just look at any sailing magazine for adds. I would go with the largest boat you can afford if you've already done some sailing and know what you want. But be careful what you buy for $4000.00. Have it surveyed. Be patient, do a lot of looking around and investigation, the right boat will come to you.
I don't disagree with you that small boats are a blast and "closer to the real feel " of sailing. But, it's not for everyone. Lynne hails from Rhode Island, some of the best cruising grounds in North America right at her door step. Water is coldish so flipping a unballasted boat is not fun. There are things we don't know about Lynne and her Husband to recommend a small dinghy class sailboat. 1) are they looking for a boat to be on the water? or are they athletic and want a challenge, possibly getting wet? 2) What about the head facilities? I have a Lightning and a keelboat with a head. My wife likes the lightning alright, but much prefers the bigger boat, even for day sailing, as if nature calls, she is not stuck hanging it over the side in a busy harbor. 3) you mentioned camping with a tent, or boom tent type of arrangement. Do they like camping or are they looking for some creature comforts? 4) unless they want to stay in the bays and harbors they'll really need a larger boat than a daysailor. Lynne, you might already know this. In Newport, you can rent Rhodes 19's by the hour. They are 19 foot, ballasted keel boats with no cabin to speak of. If your at all thinking of a daysailor, rent one of these for while and see if that's what you want. There is plenty of opportunity to take sailing lessons and keelboat certification in R.I. Just look at any sailing magazine for adds. I would go with the largest boat you can afford if you've already done some sailing and know what you want. But be careful what you buy for $4000.00. Have it surveyed. Be patient, do a lot of looking around and investigation, the right boat will come to you.
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