First 235 head

[cb32863]

My 1992 235 has the porta-potti as opposed to a full marine head. I am thinking of adding a head and holding tank and I am looking for information as to what was original to the older boats that have a marine head. Configuration, where things are run, brand of components, etc..

Thanks!

 

[Benny17441]

It is a matter of space. Have seen some installations where people have to be contortionists just to be able to use the head. What were they thinking? At the very least a porta-potty can be moved around like to the cockpit at night in an anchorage or to the center of the cabin to be able to spread out. Remember that a fixed head installation will require an "adequate" size holding tank and thru-hull and deck discharge and pump out ports. On the other end of the spectrum have seen sailors replace their marine heads with porta-pottys. I would say that the important thing is that the choice be functional. Some OEM equipment from older boats might not be available so I would just see what components are available out there right now and see if and how they could be fitted in. Now that I think about it I remember seeing a picture of a boat where the owner dismantled the V-Berth of a boat to install a head there. Check and see if you can get "The Head Mistress" Peggie Hall to chime in as she could probably offer much better answers to your questions and advice as well.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I would seriously reconsider your plans to switch.

You're on a lake, you can't dump overboard. Do you have pump out stations on your lake that are easy for you to get to and use?

A holding tank uses 3 gallons per person per day, based on Peggie Hall's excellent advice. She also notes that a porta potti uses less water for flushing than a built in head.

Think this through before you do anything.

Good luck.

 

[Roland5048]

I can't answer your question about configuration or holding tank, but if you are set on a built-in MSD, go with the Raritan PHII. A bit pricey but well worth it. You also might want to give the composting toilets a look. Peggy Hall, the Head Mistress, will probably be able to steer you in the right direction. Good Luck.
Roland
s/v Fraulein II

 

[Jackdaw]

On the first 80% of the 235s built, the boat came with a marine toilet mounted in a dedicated cabin that doubled as a chart table. With clever sliding panels and a door that gave the area complete privacy, as big as the heads in 30 footers, and was a valued part of the 235 design, in particular with people that used them for weekending. Without a doubt, the marine head with a holding tank is a much more civilized way to deal with the business.

As shipped, the boat came with a rear facing jabsco head with seawater intake and a Y value that split between dumping to the sea or to the 10 gallon holding tank in the aft locker. The whole setup was well done. The toilet sat on a raised platform in the front part of the compartment, and the hoses ran aft behind a wooden panel. Nice.

In say 1991 Beni USA offered the boat without the marine head, at a savings of over 700 bucks. Some people bit. Like your boats original owner. We had the marine toilet on our 235 and loved it.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Without a doubt, the marine head with a holding tank is a much more civilized way to deal with the business.

Which is a lot like saying 4" spike heels are a lot more "civilized" footwear for women than flat shoes.

Seems to me you're confusing "civilized" with a need to pretend that systems appropriate for boats 30'+ are "necessary" on a 23' boat...the old "image is everything"--the tag line an ad for some product in the '90s.

If your portapotty is a portable model, I can certainly understand your wanting to "trade up" to a system that can be pumped out and also holds a lot more flushes. But you don't have to go all the way to a marine toilet, tank and all that goes with 'em to have that. IMO. a 5-6 gallon "MSD" portapotty ("MSD" means designed to be permanently installed and is fitted for pumpout) is the ideal solution on 99% of boat under 27'. Let's compare the two systems:

A 5-6 gallon MSD portapotty holds 50-60 flushes...you'd need at least a 30 gal tank to hold that many from any marine toilet. A tank even half that size plus all the related plumbing will reduce available storage space on a 23-26' boat by 25-50%....a self-contained "MSD" system reduces it -0-%. The toilet will require regular lubrication and maintenance ...the self-contained MSD system requires -0- maintenance except a bucketful of clean water in the tank during pumpout. Marine sanitation plumbing also requires maintenance to prevent (or dissolve if you neglect to prevent) sea water mineral buildup...hoses also permeate with odor, requiring replacement. A marine toilet needs a hole in the bottom of the boat to supply flush water...self contained systems do not. The only plumbing a self contained system needs is a pumpout hose and a vent line...no intake line. no vented loops, y-valves, tank level indicators..Flushing a marine requires detailed instruction (pump twice in the wet mode before use, pump six more times in the wet mode mode after use, switch to the dry mode....)...instructions for using a self-contained system are simple: pull this lever. Total cost for everything needed to install a marine toilet and holding tank averages upward of $500....A 5-6 gallon MSD portapotty is <$175...vent line, vent thru-hull and pumpout line shouldn't run much more than another $50. Your only real choices are Thetford and SeaLand...the sbo.com online store carries both.

I know which way I'd go. But...it's your boat. I can only help you make an informed choice.

 

[Alan Gomes]

On the first 80% of the 235s built, the boat came with a marine toilet mounted in a dedicated cabin that doubled as a chart table. With clever sliding panels and a door that gave the area complete privacy, as big as the heads in 30 footers, and was a valued part of the 235 design, in particular with people that used them for weekending. Without a doubt, the marine head with a holding tank is a much more civilized way to deal with the business.

As shipped, the boat came with a rear facing jabsco head with seawater intake and a Y value that split between dumping to the sea or to the 10 gallon holding tank in the aft locker. The whole setup was well done. The toilet sat on a raised platform in the front part of the compartment, and the hoses ran aft behind a wooden panel. Nice.

In say 1991 Beni USA offered the boat without the marine head, at a savings of over 700 bucks. Some people bit. Like your boats original owner. We had the marine toilet on our 235 and loved it.

A Thetford 555P has a much greater effective working capacity than a conventional head hooked to a 10 gal. holding tank. That's because of the very small amount of flush water needed, by comparison. The 555P on my Ericson 26 lasts me noticeably longer than what I had on my Catalina 30, which was a conventional head and 15 gal. holding tank.

I'd say the way to go would be to get an MSD porta potty and then plumb it however you need to in keeping with your sailing area and situation. Mine is plumbed through a macerator for overboard discharge, which is legal when I'm 3 miles off shore, and I also have a deck fitting for pump out. Your situation may be different as far as overboard discharge goes. But you can easily plumb it for a pump out. Not going with a separate holding tank will make the installation far easier and you'll have more effective capacity to boot!

 

[Jackdaw]

Which is a lot like saying 4" spike heels are a lot more "civilized" footwear for women than flat shoes.

Seems to me you're confusing "civilized" with a need to pretend that systems appropriate for boats 30'+ are "necessary" on a 23' boat...the old "image is everything"--the tag line an ad for some product in the '90s.

If your portapotty is a portable model, I can certainly understand your wanting to "trade up" to a system that can be pumped out and also holds a lot more flushes. But you don't have to go all the way to a marine toilet, tank and all that goes with 'em to have that. IMO. a 5-6 gallon "MSD" portapotty ("MSD" means designed to be permanently installed and is fitted for pumpout) is the ideal solution on 99% of boat under 27'. Let's compare the two systems:

Peggy,

I'm not confused about anything. Regardless of boat size, I don't think you will find anyone that will not say that using a marine toilet is a nicer experience vis-a-vis a porta-potty. The deck pumpout option only improves the emptying experience, not the using..

I DO agree with you that it can be expensive, and some might think it over kill. But the boat CAME that way, so not everyone thought so. And I also agree that a hybrid solution with deck pumpout is a good mid-range solution. But I know which I'd rather sit on. And every lady I've ever had on a boat agreed with me. You might disagree, but that doesn't make me confused.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Peggy,

I'm not confused about anything. Regardless of boat size, I don't think you will find anyone that will not say that using a marine toilet is a nicer experience vis-a-vis a porta-potty. The deck pumpout option only improves the emptying experience, not the using..

I DO agree with you that it can be expensive, and some might think it over kill. But the boat CAME that way, so not everyone thought so. And I also agree that a hybrid solution with deck pumpout is a good mid-range solution. But I know which I'd rather sit on. And every lady I've ever had on a boat agreed with me. You might disagree, but that doesn't make me confused.

Well, I can point to one lady who *does* disagree with you, and that is my wife. She prefers the Thetford 555P over the conventional Groco that I had on my Catalina 30 because it is slightly taller and my wife is tall. I'm on the short side but I see no difference in "comfort" between the two.

 

[Jackdaw]

Well, I can point to one lady who *does* disagree with you, and that is my wife. She prefers the Thetford 555P over the conventional Groco that I had on my Catalina 30 because it is slightly taller and my wife is tall. I'm on the short side but I see no difference in "comfort" between the two.

Well keeping the ladies happy is job #1. The sit-height issue is really an ergonomic one that the boat builder is supposed to adjust with a platform. The C30s that I've been on have a small angled platform that was difficult to sit on. The 235 has a 6 inch high platform that works well with marine heads.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

What it really comes down to is, whatever floats YOUR boat.

 

[Ron20324]

IIRC all this correctly.... The 1992 B235 I bought in spring of '94 had the full marine system. The "head" was mostly like in post 5, but instead of the raising panel there was a cloth curtain. I sewed pockets onto it to hold various items. The potty was in the aft of the head, facing forward. No chart table. The mounting platform carried into a cubby behind the post that IIRC was the battery. I moved the battery outboard so a milk crate would fit there. The holding tank was rectangle with about a 8-inch cap that you could remove to pump out, though I think there was a deck fitting also?