fine gelcoat cracks all over below waterline :(

[Markus]

ok, ok... i will go sailing

ok, neptune has spoken, everyone else has spoken... go sailing! I AGREE!!! do the other side, paint a few coats and go. Who wants or can afford a new boat anyway? The older the better. Why throw thousands away for this old boat... take the money and fly to Turkey or Croatia and charter a boat or hitchhike on a few sailboats in Greece instead (not sure if you can still do that... did that in the late 80's) . That would be much better, than obsessing over an old boat and cracks. As long as she doesn't sink, and those cracks do not go through all the way anyway... we'll be fine. I like the idea about the testing method... LOL!!! THANKS GUYS!!!!!

 

[Waffle]

PETTIT PROTECT

The colder it is the longer it takes to set up... You'll be ok. I am planning on putting some on this weekend 45'. KEEP YOUR PAINT WARM!!!!PETTIT PROTECTHIGH BUILD EPOXY PRIMER4700/4701APPLICATION DATAMETHOD.....Brush, Roller, Airless or ConventionalSprayINDUCTION PERIOD....15 minutes @ 70°FNUMBER OF COATS....3 min.DRY FILM THICKNESS PER COAT.....4 mils(7.1 wet mils)APPLICATION TEMP (air & substrate).....50° F. Min.90° F. Max.POT LIFE.... 2½ hrs. @ 90°F5 hrs. @ 70°F10 hrs. @ 50°F

 

[NautiDuck]

Neptune again

Markus those "old" fiberglass boats are built like the proverbial "brick sh** houses." That C27 will outlast all of us. The crazing is like dust on a fine old bottle of wine. Happy sailing.

 

[Richard Bryer]

Waffle

Qualify your advice. I have used VC 17 for the past 15 years on my boats. I find it works just fine in cold fresh water. As do most of the other boat owners in this part of the world.

 

[Waffle]

Richard Bryer the only fresh water I have

seen is warm but I wouldn't put that stuff on a boat in the north pole. But that is me I don't like to take chances. I got a can of VC-17 one time at West Marine and took it back. I told the guy I don't want to mess with this stuff and he said I don't blame you.

 

[Old Salt]

Waffle I agree with Richard

You seem to post adamant and decisive positions and arguments often, though you fail to qualify any extensive experience on a variety of subjects. Too often you are harsh and rush to knee-jerk judgments far too quickly and without substantiation.Getting one can of VC and returning it to WM hardly makes you an authority on its efficacy.

 

[Ross]

Waffle, tell us what it is about VC that

you find objectionable. It is not a bad product but it seems that it doesn't suit your purposes. Please tell us why you don't like it.

 

[CalebD]

I am not Waffle and I have used VC17

and while I do not use it now I did try it one season. I did not put the reccommended number of coats on as I had not purchased enough quarts to do the job and had to go into the water with 1 & 1/2 coats. At $45/quart I spent over $130 for bottom paint that year and my hull came out of the LI Sound with a pretty good beard. I do not blame the VC 17 paint as much as myself for not following directions. Some people who race swear by this product as it gives a nice thin, hard, smooth surface which gives them another 1/4 knot on a good day.This year I bought another gallon of the WM CPP ablative for around $50 (after mail in rebate) and will put on several coats before April 22nd. It does not give the hard, smooth finish of VC 17 but our boat has a PHRF of 242 so keeping the barnacles off her is more important to me than the 1/4 knot I intend to make up by diligent sail trimming. Yes I am a cheapskate and only a newbie racer - so there! For me VC 17 is a very expen$ive bottom coating that I chose not to use again in a somewhat warm salt water environment. Apparently it is the perfect product for cold fresh water.I have noticed that Waffle has an interesting way of posting to these threads. I do not think he means to offend anyone and I dont think he can see the keyboard all that well judging by his spelling (late night posts contain hilarious misspellings, as do mine). I think that Waffle is only trying to offer his opinion here which is what we usually come here for: opinions. Advice is cheap though and if you have used this board as long as I have (not all that long) you know who the audience is and who gives the most detailed (and believable) advice. So lets not jump on Waffle like someone jumped on a recent newbie who pulled her whole post. I also loved the flaming that went on in the recent thread about navigating in fog with someone from Texas deriding an old salt from Maine about his advise - that was classic! Please keep it civil, is all I am saying.Only 19 more days till we launch our Tartan 27!

 

[Rob Hessenius]

Vc-17, is not just for racers

Waffle- I have seen you post in a couple of threads you're distaste for VC-17 or as you put it, "VC anything". As a person who has used, applied, sold, VC-17 for 10 years, your comments make me scratch my head. This is a great product for a fresh water boater, whether they race or daysail or just plain relax on there boats. I dont think there are any great claims that it works in saltwater. Its market is truly freshwater. I am no fan of VC Tar since Interlux 2000 has worked there issues out. I know if you talk to an Interlux rep, he would reccomend 2000 over tar.Waffle, you have no expierence with this product, as you admit. Why confuse this guy. If you had ever had any "VC Anything" on your hands, I could actually take you serious. Being that said, please add true life expierences versus typing in on a thread just to type. Rob Hessenius

 

[Old Salt]

Caleb you are right

I will also say that what I wrote about Waffle was fair. I did not come down with "barrels a blazin"I did "call him out" and point out that his post was with very little actual experience. I will say this about his posts though. He seems to post like he knows alot, but everything he writes abouts seems based more in reading and internet sailing wisdom than actually "being out there". To put it another way. When he writes in a way of stating things like he's read alot, but I doubt he's ever crossed an ocean or a pond.

 

[Markus]

The VC versus 2000 debate

I had suggested the vc versus the 2000 because of the temperature application. It seems to be a debate on which oil is better to use versus another with one claiming that let's say vegie oil isn't good for your diesel (which btw works beautifully)... My main concept is that the temperatures are only going to be in the 30's 40's and maybe 50's within the next week or so. That means that it would push launch date to may 1, if i have to wait to use the 2000. Thus I had suggested the VC because it can be applied down to 40 degrees. I don't care about a 1/4 knot of slowness for this old tub, just to get the job done quickly so I can get out faster, although 36 degree water off cleveland doesn't sound too enticing at this point. Maybe I am jumping the gun... and should wait for warmer water and air...Let's debate on which product is the most efficient to use? What product lasts longer!

 

[Rob Hessenius]

Tar vs. 2000

Markus- First, air temp is something to be concerned with, but surface temp of your hull is more important when applying 2000. 2000 is just to logical to use. Ease of use and less cost and faster curring times are just a few of the advantages. Tar can be applied at lower temps, but its viscosity is like "cold tar". It takes about a month to fully cure. So after all the work that you put into it when the travellift picks you up you will see the strap marks. Its only April 4th, lots of good days ahead. Just be patient and use 2000. Both product last for many, many years. Just dont sand it off if you remove your paint. Tar was the "in thing" years ago. Trust me Markus, I know your itch to get out on the boat. This is a job that you will do once, take your time. Rob Hessenius

 

[Maine Sail]

Interlux Interprotect 3000..

Can be applied down to 32 degrees F while VC Tar2 can only be applied down to 41. The drying time for VC Tar2 at 41F is 6 hours and 3000 at 41F is 8 hours, only a two hour difference at 41F. Yet if you use 3000 and the temp happens to drop to below 41 it will still kick as long as temps remain above 32 but if you use VC Tar2 and the temp drops three is no way of knowing what exactly might happen. One mroe thing to consider is the actual hull temp or keel temp, keels take a LONG time to warm up to ambient, left over from the nigh before. If speed is what you want, here's the clincher, VC Tar2 "apply 5 to 7 coats to bare fiberglass" and Interprotect 300o "for bare fiberglass apply 3 to 4 coats". Even with the slightly longer dry time of the 3000 you're still done faster. I've used both before and 3000 builds very quickly, although I've always done 4 coats. Where VC Tar2 takes closer to 7 than 5 coats..We have long winters here in Maine and short season so lots of folks use Interprotect 3000.

 

[Waffle]

Old Salt,

SAILING 35 YEAR. BOATS I HAVE OWNED VENTURE 17, SUNFISH (STILL OWN), SAN JUAN 21, KINGFISHER, HUNTER 28, CATALINA 36 (STILL OWN). SAILING TRIPS INCLUDES FLA TO NJ AND MYSTIC CT TO NJ PLUS MANNY OHER CRUISE.I DO ALL MY OWN MAINTENANCE.SO WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF VC-17 EXCEPT SPEED. WE KNOW IT DOES WORK WELL WITH OTHER PAINTS. IT ONLY SEEMS TO WORK WELL IN COLD FRESH WATER.YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE BIG DOGS IF YOUR LANDLOCKED IN A LAKE.

 

[Rob Hessenius]

Confusion

Waffle- Please read the original post. This guy is in Ohio. I dont think there is any saltwater there, but lots of fresh, cold water! Stop trying to confuse this thread. Rob Hessenius

 

[Old Salt]

Rob H. Thank you, at 1st I wasn't going to reply

I was thinkin' it wasn't worth the time and remind him of where Markus was from.Even more foolish is his statement about not running with big dogs in a landlocked lake. I guess he's never heard of Lake Superior, Huron, Ontario, etc. How about the Mackinaw race? I have heard many world reknowned sailors some years consider that to be one of the toughest they've done.Going back to your ridiculous (I could say ignorant) first post you actually said "Never use VC ANYTHING!!! "Funny It seems like Practical Sailor and other people disagree with you . In their latest bottom paint tests (Oct 2006) they gave the VC offshore product an EXCELLENT rating for Florida and even gave it a "recommended" rating (only 9 paints out of 52 got that rating)While VC is not for everyone its well known that "hard" bottom paints are good for boats that are kept in the water for long periods of time. Like the Carib, Fl, Gulf, etc (I guess you short season NYC people don't know about that)While VC 17 is more for racers (it has teflon in it) I still contend claiming "Never use VC ANYTHING!!!" is and was an irresponsible knee-jerk post that does a disservice to those trying to learn the facts(ps. been sailing and doing my own maintenance a lot longer than you, but thats not even the point now is it? Its about accurate comments and facts)