finally got the compression test done

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cjfj

.
Oct 16, 2010
83
hunter H34 Mayo, MD
Results:
#1Cylinder has 400 psi, #2 Cylinder has 175 psi and #3
Cylinder has 150 psi.
Think I might have an issue here :evil::evil::eek:
maybe that's why the crank case vent hose is under high pressure.

Bayshore marine in Annapolis says @6k as a very rough est:eek:
 
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ALNims

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Jul 31, 2014
208
Hunter 356 Huis Ten Bosch Marina, Sasebo, Japan
cjfj said:
Mechanic said new specs were a little over 400. But they should all be equal. But you buy a 30+ yo boat you get 30+yo boat problems
Click to expand
You may just need piston rings. If the sump is pressurizing that means you have piston blow by due to bad piston rings. $6K is pretty high unless you have other problems. Is an engine overhaul being recommended?
 
C

cjfj

.
Oct 16, 2010
83
hunter H34 Mayo, MD
ALNims said:
You may just need piston rings. If the sump is pressurizing that means you have piston blow by due to bad piston rings. $6K is pretty high unless you have other problems. Is an engine overhaul being recommended?
Click to expand
While I’m not a professional mech, I’ve done enough to know that if you go into the engine far enough to replace a piston ring you’d be a fool to do just the rings. You’d want to bore and re-hone the cylinders, reseat the valves, new cam and crank bearings, etc. To not do a complete rebuild means you’ll have to do it again later.

No other problems but we're talking a 30year old engine, $6k was worst case and includes rebuilding of everything, including starter and alternator. May seem a bit high compared to some areas but hey this is Annapolis and the Washington DC area. The shop I’m looking at using is one of the best you’ll find anywhere. I've seen rebuilt engines selling for around 5K on the web so it does not seem to high to have it done locally

Just my $6k worth and you’re mileage may very
 
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ALNims

.
Jul 31, 2014
208
Hunter 356 Huis Ten Bosch Marina, Sasebo, Japan
cjfj said:
While I’m not a professional mech, I’ve done enough to know that if you go into the engine far enough to replace a piston ring you’d be a fool to do just the rings. You’d want to bore and re-hone the cylinders, reseat the valves, new cam and crank bearings, etc. To not do a complete rebuild means you’ll have to do it again later.

No other problems but we're talking a 30year old engine, $6k was worst case and includes rebuilding of everything, including starter and alternator. May seem a bit high compared to some areas but hey this is Annapolis and the Washington DC area. The shop I’m looking at using is one of the best you’ll find anywhere. I've seen rebuilt engines selling for around 5K on the web so it does not seem to high to have it done locally

Just my $6k worth and you’re mileage may very
Click to expand
That is true about the thought process about the rebuild. Hopefully when they open it up they won't find any block problems. Age is certainly a factor but run hours is more important. Your engine manual maintenance is set up using run hours. If you have good maintenance records I would suggest copies be provided to the shop doing the work. Your original post suggested to me that you were concerned about the $6K price so that is why I suggested the piston rings. Also most engines have cylinder liners and you will have to replace them rather than reboring or re-honing. If your going to really do it right you will most likely will need to change the pistons, piston sleeve bearings and con rods. Hopefully your head is in good shape. Also does the $5K rebuilt engine come with a warranty? Also will that be the price with a turn in of your old engine? If that is just the rebuilt engine price you may be able to get a credit for the old engine. Another thing to consider is the shop doing the rebuild will have to pull the engine anyway so a rebuilt engine may ultimately less costly for you and actually reduce your down time for the job. Another thing to consider is does the rebuild shop have a dynamic engine test stand that can test run the engine in the shop to ensure proper operation of the engine before they put the engine back in? This will also save time and money. The engine can be broken in and final checked before you install it and take it out for a sea trial. Finally, when the final engine to shaft alignment is done, the final alignment should be accomplished waterborne after your boat has been in the water at least 24 hours. Hull stresses are different on the hard versus in the water and will affect alignment and prevent problems later. Best of luck with your engine repair and I would be interested to see how it turns out if you are willing to pass on the information.
 
C

cjfj

.
Oct 16, 2010
83
hunter H34 Mayo, MD
ALNims said:
That is true about the thought process about the rebuild. Hopefully when they open it up they won't find any block problems. Age is certainly a factor but run hours is more important. Your engine manual maintenance is set up using run hours. If you have good maintenance records I would suggest copies be provided to the shop doing the work. Your original post suggested to me that you were concerned about the $6K price so that is why I suggested the piston rings. Also most engines have cylinder liners and you will have to replace them rather than reboring or re-honing. If your going to really do it right you will most likely will need to change the pistons, piston sleeve bearings and con rods. Hopefully your head is in good shape. Also does the $5K rebuilt engine come with a warranty? Also will that be the price with a turn in of your old engine? If that is just the rebuilt engine price you may be able to get a credit for the old engine. Another thing to consider is the shop doing the rebuild will have to pull the engine anyway so a rebuilt engine may ultimately less costly for you and actually reduce your down time for the job. Another thing to consider is does the rebuild shop have a dynamic engine test stand that can test run the engine in the shop to ensure proper operation of the engine before they put the engine back in? This will also save time and money. The engine can be broken in and final checked before you install it and take it out for a sea trial. Finally, when the final engine to shaft alignment is done, the final alignment should be accomplished waterborne after your boat has been in the water at least 24 hours. Hull stresses are different on the hard versus in the water and will affect alignment and prevent problems later. Best of luck with your engine repair and I would be interested to see how it turns out if you are willing to pass on the information.
Click to expand
“Maintenance Log”, “Run Hours” no on both accounts. Once completed all records will be well documented. Boat was left on the hard for about 5 years after the PO died. Broker picked it up and started cleaning it up and I bought it with the intentions of doing more of the work myself. I could do the rebuild but would never get it finished.
I don’t know the details about the rebuilt yet but core exchange is required (plus shipping from Wisconsin to Maryland and back). The shop I’m looking to use is one of the best, I have not discussed the details of the build and their facilities, dynamic test stand, full machine shop on premises or farm out the heavy machining. Thanks for the suggestions. I’m not too worried about the total cost, yes $6000 is more than I can afford to part with but is part of owning a boat this size. I would rather spend it now than have to do it all over again in a couple years.
The only real advantage in going with the internet engine would be that it is a 3gm30F, I currently have a 3gmF. That 10 hp might be the difference in getting off the sand bar that tends to sneak up on every sailor.
I’ll keep the post updated with progress and my thoughts and decisions as I go along.
 
C

cjfj

.
Oct 16, 2010
83
hunter H34 Mayo, MD
Thought I'd give some of the problems I was experiencing that lead up to the compression test and why I am talking complete overhaul.
Engine was running fine all summer long 2 years ago. It usally took three to four 10-15 sec cranking sessions to start and ran smoothly.
Then got caught in some heavy seas with the wind, current and tide against us. I had the fuel estimated to about ½ a tank when it quit running. Once back in the slip I put in 10 gals in a 15 gal tank and tried to bleed the system ( fuel tank had been cleaned out at the end of the previous season, also had new motor mounts, injector pump rebuilt and new lift pump). I had a very hard time bleeding it and getting it running. Once running it would run very smoothly and restart when warm. Once it was cold it would not start without releasing the compression levers and cranking it. At this point there was a little smoke. To me it looked white. I drained all of the fuel and started over, but the smoking just seemed to get worse. I also noted that to start I had to release only the #1 compression level and leave 2 and 3 off. Once it was running I could release 2 and then 3. If while running, I released #1 it would die. releasing #2 or #3 it would stutter a bit but keep running. I had the injectors rebuilt and replaced all of the crush washers in the system. Still no change unless you call the smoking getting worse. It was about this time I noticed that there was very high pressure from the crank case vent tube. That’s when I called a mechanic in to do a compression test.
Other issues with the engine; starter, alternator are 30+years old. Alternator pivot bolt mount is egged shaped causing the alt to be at an angle to the crank pulley and not on the same plane.
I’ve assembled many car engines over the years but as those years go by it gets harder and harder to get the time. Other obligations took up most of last season’s boat project time so I’m trying to get caught up now.
 
A

ALNims

.
Jul 31, 2014
208
Hunter 356 Huis Ten Bosch Marina, Sasebo, Japan
cjfj said:
“Maintenance Log”, “Run Hours” no on both accounts. Once completed all records will be well documented. Boat was left on the hard for about 5 years after the PO died. Broker picked it up and started cleaning it up and I bought it with the intentions of doing more of the work myself. I could do the rebuild but would never get it finished.
I don’t know the details about the rebuilt yet but core exchange is required (plus shipping from Wisconsin to Maryland and back). The shop I’m looking to use is one of the best, I have not discussed the details of the build and their facilities, dynamic test stand, full machine shop on premises or farm out the heavy machining. Thanks for the suggestions. I’m not too worried about the total cost, yes $6000 is more than I can afford to part with but is part of owning a boat this size. I would rather spend it now than have to do it all over again in a couple years.
The only real advantage in going with the internet engine would be that it is a 3gm30F, I currently have a 3gmF. That 10 hp might be the difference in getting off the sand bar that tends to sneak up on every sailor.
I’ll keep the post updated with progress and my thoughts and decisions as I go along.
Click to expand
Sounds good. I have experienced trying to overhaul old small diesels before. Parts were difficult to get. Over the years the manufacturer made changes in the engine design and still kept the same model name. If Yanmar is not building the engine anymore they may no longer carry the parts. I have also found that the cost of overhauling an engine can be higher than either buying a rebuilt engine or even buying a new one. The reason being, no one knows for sure what needs to be done until the engine is removed, torn down and inspected. I would like to encourage you to consider all options. I also think it is a good idea to contact Yanmar technical support to find out what is the availability of parts for your engine. They may also be able to advise you on a cost effective course of action including a ready to go rebuilt engine with a warranty. Again best of luck and since you mentioned earlier, it is entirely possible that your best long term solution would be to replace your thirty year old 3GMF with a newer model 3GM30F. Again best of luck and please keep the post updated. I am interested to see how this progresses.
 
C

cjfj

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Oct 16, 2010
83
hunter H34 Mayo, MD
Decisions' been made!
After all of the phone calls and research I ended up with three choices for repowering.
First a rebuild for $4800 from an unknown rebuilder halfway across the country. A unknown reputation, reasonable warranty plus freight both ways, about $700 to $1000. But a 3gm30f instead of the 3gmF.
Second was to have a local rebuilder here in Annapolis, Md rebuild my block. for about $6000. Also good warranty but they are local and can do the work themselves. The unknown issue here is what else they may find once they open the block up.

While speaking with the local guy he indicated that he has a 3gm30F finished and ready to go for about $6500. I can have it as soon as I can transfer the funds to the checking account :dance:

My regular mechanic will be scheduling the removal as soon as he can get to it. By that time the funds should be ready to transfer and the check written.
 
A

ALNims

.
Jul 31, 2014
208
Hunter 356 Huis Ten Bosch Marina, Sasebo, Japan
cjfj said:
Decisions' been made!
After all of the phone calls and research I ended up with three choices for repowering.
First a rebuild for $4800 from an unknown rebuilder halfway across the country. A unknown reputation, reasonable warranty plus freight both ways, about $700 to $1000. But a 3gm30f instead of the 3gmF.
Second was to have a local rebuilder here in Annapolis, Md rebuild my block. for about $6000. Also good warranty but they are local and can do the work themselves. The unknown issue here is what else they may find once they open the block up.

While speaking with the local guy he indicated that he has a 3gm30F finished and ready to go for about $6500. I can have it as soon as I can transfer the funds to the checking account :dance:

My regular mechanic will be scheduling the removal as soon as he can get to it. By that time the funds should be ready to transfer and the check written.
Click to expand
I would recommend that you do the final alignment checks with the new engine with the boat in the water at least 24 hours. Also you may want to check your motor mount condition after engine removal and prior to re-installation. Most likely the boat will be up on the hard when they swap the engine out and they will do a alignment check then. It is important to do the final alignment in the water after the boat has been in the water at least 24 hours because hull stresses on the hard and in the water are different and could effect the alignment. Best of luck.
Andrew
 
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cjfj

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Oct 16, 2010
83
hunter H34 Mayo, MD
Boat will stay in the water, yard has a crane. I'm just a few slips down from the travel lift and we can pole it over and lift the engine out. Motor mounts are all new put them in a year ago and never had much vibration from the engine. But all good tips thanks. The mech doing the swap is a good guy and knows his engines. I'll make sure he does an alignment check after the 24 hours. I know when he replaced the motor mounts and a few other things while we were on the hard, he came back and checked / adjusted the alignment.
Thanks again for all the tips.
 
C

cjfj

.
Oct 16, 2010
83
hunter H34 Mayo, MD
Well, the deeds been done, the mechanic finished installing the engine this morning. first time starting it took about 2 seconds of cranking to start. The best I've been able to do with the old enging was 2 to 3 cranking cycles of 10-15 seconds with 10 second breaks between each. One problem was the oil sending unit was bad but a call to the dealer has a new one on the the way to the mechanic who will get it install early this week and will perform the sea trial with the shop rep to start the warrenty.

Now to get the port windows finished up and head out.
 
A

ALNims

.
Jul 31, 2014
208
Hunter 356 Huis Ten Bosch Marina, Sasebo, Japan
cjfj said:
Well, the deeds been done, the mechanic finished installing the engine this morning. first time starting it took about 2 seconds of cranking to start. The best I've been able to do with the old enging was 2 to 3 cranking cycles of 10-15 seconds with 10 second breaks between each. One problem was the oil sending unit was bad but a call to the dealer has a new one on the the way to the mechanic who will get it install early this week and will perform the sea trial with the shop rep to start the warrenty.

Now to get the port windows finished up and head out.
Click to expand
Congratulations. I hope you have a worry free season.
Andrew
 
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