Have a simple one for y'all: The screws holding the pulleys down onto our fiberglass deck are no longer holding the pulleys down! Is this just a matter of re-filling the holes with an epoxy and rescrewing the screws?
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I would thru bolt them if possible
Thru bolting is much better than just filiing in the holes and rescrewing. However, if you cannot get acess inside, then I guess you have to do what you mention. Nevertheless, for thru bolting the preferred method is to drill oversize for the size bolts you need and then fill in the holes with epoxy. Following that drill for the size bolts you are going to use. In this fashion you generate an epoxy barrier in the hole to keep water out. Also, use some silicone or other bedding compound when installing the thru bolts.
Thru bolting is much better than just filiing in the holes and rescrewing. However, if you cannot get acess inside, then I guess you have to do what you mention. Nevertheless, for thru bolting the preferred method is to drill oversize for the size bolts you need and then fill in the holes with epoxy. Following that drill for the size bolts you are going to use. In this fashion you generate an epoxy barrier in the hole to keep water out. Also, use some silicone or other bedding compound when installing the thru bolts.
Epoxy is not a solution.
Ken: We do not know what type of boat you have and any details. If you have a Hunter, there are many areas that have aluminum backing plates. These are very strong and can be drilled and tapped. If you do not have this situation, you should consider a drill, fill and re-drill. This procedure is necessary if you have any hollow area between the deck and the liner. You drill out the hole to approx. 2 times the bolt that will be using. Then fill the hole with epoxy (this fills the void and protect the liner (balsa, plywood etc). Then you redrill the hole to the proper size. Then you can either cut the bolts to the proper length and use acorn nuts or some other method to finish off the interior.
Ken: We do not know what type of boat you have and any details. If you have a Hunter, there are many areas that have aluminum backing plates. These are very strong and can be drilled and tapped. If you do not have this situation, you should consider a drill, fill and re-drill. This procedure is necessary if you have any hollow area between the deck and the liner. You drill out the hole to approx. 2 times the bolt that will be using. Then fill the hole with epoxy (this fills the void and protect the liner (balsa, plywood etc). Then you redrill the hole to the proper size. Then you can either cut the bolts to the proper length and use acorn nuts or some other method to finish off the interior.
Epoxy works for me.
All the deck fittings on my 1979 H37C remained tight for over twenty years. The deck organizer, handrails, and forward traveler were all screwed into the deck coring. And only silicone was used to seal, no 5200 in '79. After I removed the traveler and rails for refinishing I considered bolt-through. That's a problem on my boat because of what is on the inside, more handrails for example. So I drilled holes to 3/8" and filled with a West System epoxy/putty mix. You could lift my 18000# boat with the handrails, except they would break. Put those screws won't pull out.
All the deck fittings on my 1979 H37C remained tight for over twenty years. The deck organizer, handrails, and forward traveler were all screwed into the deck coring. And only silicone was used to seal, no 5200 in '79. After I removed the traveler and rails for refinishing I considered bolt-through. That's a problem on my boat because of what is on the inside, more handrails for example. So I drilled holes to 3/8" and filled with a West System epoxy/putty mix. You could lift my 18000# boat with the handrails, except they would break. Put those screws won't pull out.
Easy there boys
Blocks vs pulleys. Everybody has to learn the terminology some time. Might as well teach it gently, there are a good number of novice sailors around here... and that's a _good_ thing! Thanks. ph.
Blocks vs pulleys. Everybody has to learn the terminology some time. Might as well teach it gently, there are a good number of novice sailors around here... and that's a _good_ thing! Thanks. ph.
Bolt-thru not an option
Thanks with your help, especially with the natical terminology! The item in question is (Joe, correct me if I'm wrong here) the traveler blocks on the Widgeon we're breathing new life into. I don't believe there's a way to "bolt-through" because there's no way to get to the "nut-side" of the bolt. Is epoxy the way to go?
Thanks with your help, especially with the natical terminology! The item in question is (Joe, correct me if I'm wrong here) the traveler blocks on the Widgeon we're breathing new life into. I don't believe there's a way to "bolt-through" because there's no way to get to the "nut-side" of the bolt. Is epoxy the way to go?
Through-bolt ALL deck fittings.
Ken, ALL rigging blocks mounted on a fibreglass deck should be through-bolted and provided with backing plates on the other side. If you cannot get to the underside of whatever they are mounted on, there's been a miscarriage of justice somewhere! I would not rely on sheet-metal screws going into blind holes for rigging fittings for 2 major reasons: 1. They will not hold as well; 2. You do not know what they are going into and have less chance of treating that material properly than if the hole has two ends and you can see what is going on at both of them. Drill them through, treat the holes with epoxy (to take care of any balsa coring inside), and remount them using 5200 or equivalent bedding compound, a back-up plate or large-pattern SS flat washers, and SS aircraft lock-nuts. I realise your boat is not that big, but my own general rule for anything larger is to never rely on anything less than 10-24 size machine screws for anything important. Let us know how you make out with it. JC 2
Ken, ALL rigging blocks mounted on a fibreglass deck should be through-bolted and provided with backing plates on the other side. If you cannot get to the underside of whatever they are mounted on, there's been a miscarriage of justice somewhere! I would not rely on sheet-metal screws going into blind holes for rigging fittings for 2 major reasons: 1. They will not hold as well; 2. You do not know what they are going into and have less chance of treating that material properly than if the hole has two ends and you can see what is going on at both of them. Drill them through, treat the holes with epoxy (to take care of any balsa coring inside), and remount them using 5200 or equivalent bedding compound, a back-up plate or large-pattern SS flat washers, and SS aircraft lock-nuts. I realise your boat is not that big, but my own general rule for anything larger is to never rely on anything less than 10-24 size machine screws for anything important. Let us know how you make out with it. JC 2
BTW Ed Schenck
By the way, O Great and All-Worthy Ed Schenck... YOU are a GOD!!! ALL the fittings on your boat have remained tight??? This is no structural integrity, this is YOUR maintenance regimen! Do not sell yourself short. We all know you treat that boat like a princess; it shows.
(BTW there was plenty of 5200 round in 1979... were you saying that Hunter did not use it? We used it at Cherubini; remember that so much of what Hunter learned they got from my dad and the rest of us there.... My cousin Dave just said yesterday that he spits on silicone-- we are forbidden to use it or even mention it in the new shop. He says-- and I believe quite correctly-- it should not be considered for the marine environment. I said, 'How 'bout the bathtub environment?' LOL --but then, can we argue with YOUR success?)
By the way, O Great and All-Worthy Ed Schenck... YOU are a GOD!!! ALL the fittings on your boat have remained tight??? This is no structural integrity, this is YOUR maintenance regimen! Do not sell yourself short. We all know you treat that boat like a princess; it shows.
(BTW there was plenty of 5200 round in 1979... were you saying that Hunter did not use it? We used it at Cherubini; remember that so much of what Hunter learned they got from my dad and the rest of us there.... My cousin Dave just said yesterday that he spits on silicone-- we are forbidden to use it or even mention it in the new shop. He says-- and I believe quite correctly-- it should not be considered for the marine environment. I said, 'How 'bout the bathtub environment?' LOL --but then, can we argue with YOUR success?)Through the liner, Ken
Through bolting means going right through the liner, putting the backing plate/washer on the cabin side of the liner, then figuring out how to live with or cover the fasteners sticking down from the cabin roof. I covered the through bolt ends from the new deck hardward that brings lines to the cockpit for single handing with a cherry plank that has a great teak handle mounted on it. This is just right for the trip back to the head underway, or for working in the "kitchen." There are less elaborate caps or nut solutions for a smaller job. David Lady Lillie
Through bolting means going right through the liner, putting the backing plate/washer on the cabin side of the liner, then figuring out how to live with or cover the fasteners sticking down from the cabin roof. I covered the through bolt ends from the new deck hardward that brings lines to the cockpit for single handing with a cherry plank that has a great teak handle mounted on it. This is just right for the trip back to the head underway, or for working in the "kitchen." There are less elaborate caps or nut solutions for a smaller job. David Lady Lillie
More descriptions and explanations may help
Maybe my limited sailing vocabulary is keeping me from explanation my situation properly. The blocks I'm dealing with are mounted (on swivels) to the gunwales on either side of the cockpit, near the transom (that's my Widgeon's traveler, right?). They may, at one time, have had a backing plate, but they were mounting using screws, not bolts - so I think they were probably just screwed in. Unless, (travesty of justice theory here) O'day mounted the fittings before attaching deck/cockpit to hull! Possible, but not likely I think, because it leads to this.... Now, the mounting plates that these blocks are attached to can be easily pulled out, I believe, because the screws no longer "bite" into the fibreglass. I'm 6'5", but my arms aren't long enough to reach thru the cuddy cabin in the bow, down the length of the cockpit, to hold a new backing plate and locknuts in place. So, I'm looking for an alternative, short of cutting a couple of holes in the cockpit. Does this explanation help y'all prescribe the cure?
Maybe my limited sailing vocabulary is keeping me from explanation my situation properly. The blocks I'm dealing with are mounted (on swivels) to the gunwales on either side of the cockpit, near the transom (that's my Widgeon's traveler, right?). They may, at one time, have had a backing plate, but they were mounting using screws, not bolts - so I think they were probably just screwed in. Unless, (travesty of justice theory here) O'day mounted the fittings before attaching deck/cockpit to hull! Possible, but not likely I think, because it leads to this.... Now, the mounting plates that these blocks are attached to can be easily pulled out, I believe, because the screws no longer "bite" into the fibreglass. I'm 6'5", but my arms aren't long enough to reach thru the cuddy cabin in the bow, down the length of the cockpit, to hold a new backing plate and locknuts in place. So, I'm looking for an alternative, short of cutting a couple of holes in the cockpit. Does this explanation help y'all prescribe the cure?
possible quick fix
How about trying an expandable anchor system, such as you might use on a hollow wall. Probably hard to find a stainless version, but there may be something close. Or... perhaps there is a very small person you know (kid, grandkids, midgets) that could crawl back there. Good Luck...
How about trying an expandable anchor system, such as you might use on a hollow wall. Probably hard to find a stainless version, but there may be something close. Or... perhaps there is a very small person you know (kid, grandkids, midgets) that could crawl back there. Good Luck...
Suggestion for Ken
Ken, if I understand you right (and this is when a photo would be worth a lot!), there is a very narrow section of deck aft of the cockpit on which these things are mounted. Is it possible to mount tangs vertically along the back surface of the cokcpit, sticking up far enough that a block can be attached to each? A tan would be like a thin-pattern chainplate; for this boat I am thinking about 3/4 wide and 6" long with about four screws in each-- number 10s I would guess. One would go in each corner to mount the blocks on them. These would still be blind holes, but the tangs would be bedded with 5200 and 3 or 4 sheet-metal screws in sheer would hold a lot more on each one than 2 in tensile threaded straight into the 'glass. Can you (or someone else) post a picture? JC (BTW and from what you said, yes, this IS the miscarriage of justice by the boatbuilder theory here!)
Ken, if I understand you right (and this is when a photo would be worth a lot!), there is a very narrow section of deck aft of the cockpit on which these things are mounted. Is it possible to mount tangs vertically along the back surface of the cokcpit, sticking up far enough that a block can be attached to each? A tan would be like a thin-pattern chainplate; for this boat I am thinking about 3/4 wide and 6" long with about four screws in each-- number 10s I would guess. One would go in each corner to mount the blocks on them. These would still be blind holes, but the tangs would be bedded with 5200 and 3 or 4 sheet-metal screws in sheer would hold a lot more on each one than 2 in tensile threaded straight into the 'glass. Can you (or someone else) post a picture? JC (BTW and from what you said, yes, this IS the miscarriage of justice by the boatbuilder theory here!)
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