Went out solo (like I always do) in some fairly brisk winds today. Kept fighting my rudder and the boat kept turning into the wind. Side stay came lose and job sheets went into the wind (stupid me didn't put stop knots at the end of them to keep them in play). Back to the rudder, the only thing I can think of is that I did secure the rudder so the it remained perpendicular. Because of my speed it was at a 45 degree angle. I think this is the reason I had so much trouble steering. Will one of you experienced sailer confirm? Luckily I start with an upwind tack so limping back to marina was relatively ease.
Fighting my boat
- Thread starter mattutley
- Start date
I didn't. Still trying to gage how much wind requires reefing the main. Now I know, live and learn...
If your boat is at 45 degrees, so too is the rudder. At that angle, it has no lift and virtually no steering ability which you described as "fighting the rudder". The boat did exactly what it should do in that scenario.
You have a very light and tender boat which makes balancing the sails even more critical in that being over-canvased in heavy winds makes such a boat almost uncontrollable.
You have a very light and tender boat which makes balancing the sails even more critical in that being over-canvased in heavy winds makes such a boat almost uncontrollable.
if you can figure out how to keep the boat on its feet (by trimming the sails/reefing), you wont be fighting it any more.
you are trying to push the boat past its limits into areas that it doesnt like to go and it doesnt like it...
you are trying to push the boat past its limits into areas that it doesnt like to go and it doesnt like it...
It looks like a general consensus. Thanks, this group continues to be very helpful, especially for a self taught neophyte like myself.
Remember when the boat is near broaching, the bow is down so the stern comes up. At 45 degrees heel and nose down you may have had less than a 1/3 of the rudder in the water. (I have never reefed either) but one day I will and I will likely figure out I will still maintain speed but will just not have the weather helm.
I did put a reefing line in this year and it's been in the way so I took it out until I have time to figure out how to run it so it won't be in the way, especially when raising and lowering the main.
I did put a reefing line in this year and it's been in the way so I took it out until I have time to figure out how to run it so it won't be in the way, especially when raising and lowering the main.
Does this mean you have a kick-up rudder that was not locked down so the rudder was kicked up 45 degrees while you were sailing ? If so I would suggest this was the main problem.
I agree with Calf. Ted that was likely your problem.
If you were worried about grounding your rudder there are a couple of things you can do. On the Mac25 I started out using a nylon bolt that could sheer in case of a grounding. I later switched to using a downhaul that was secures with a clam cleat that releases if the rudder hits anything. It is a Cl257. Here is how it is rigged.
If you were worried about grounding your rudder there are a couple of things you can do. On the Mac25 I started out using a nylon bolt that could sheer in case of a grounding. I later switched to using a downhaul that was secures with a clam cleat that releases if the rudder hits anything. It is a Cl257. Here is how it is rigged.
Attachments
I'm confused about this write up. So, let's clarify it a bit:
- Was your rudder vertical or at 45 degs?
- How much was the boat heeling?
- how much wind did you have ( any white caps?)
- Did you lock the keel?
If the rudder was not locked, it was likely out of the water and you had no steering, causing the boat to round up. If your keel was all the way down and not locked, it was too far forward and gave you too much weather helm (I did it initially until I figured out how to lock the keel). If you had small jib, large unreefed main, and a lot of wind, the boat was unbalanced and that also gave you weather helm. if the boat was heeling more that 45 degs, the rudder would come up (see my comment on vertical rudder) and you would lose steering, resulting in boat rounding up.
I usually reef at 15 kts. if the boat is not moving fast enough, I add a 130% genny. The boat is designed to go fastest at 10-15 degs of heel, so if you heel more, you have too much sail on.
If the rudder were kicked up at 45 degrees, it would feel like you would darn near break the tiller handle to move it. I know if my rudder isn't locked down and it even goes to a few degrees kicked up, it gets very hard to move the tiller. I am taking it as the boat as heeled at 45 although that's close to the rail being in the water.
I too had a stay come loose. I didn't have the litter ring in and over time the turnbuckle loosened and let go. I was in mild winds and was able to get it reconnected while it was on the lee side. Endless to say they ALL have rings in them now
I too had a stay come loose. I didn't have the litter ring in and over time the turnbuckle loosened and let go. I was in mild winds and was able to get it reconnected while it was on the lee side. Endless to say they ALL have rings in them now
all of the above is true. But*
the rudder can be improved. ruddercraft sells a balaced rudder, and others have made their own, or improved on the stock rudder.
balancing the rig helps tons, but a balanced rudder will help you not rounding up, even when over canvased.
notice the leading edge on their blade.
http://www.ruddercraft.com/catalog/...d=429&osCsid=fbdae98dd44f7120bf857305e99b16f7
-no affiliation.
the rudder can be improved. ruddercraft sells a balaced rudder, and others have made their own, or improved on the stock rudder.
balancing the rig helps tons, but a balanced rudder will help you not rounding up, even when over canvased.
notice the leading edge on their blade.
http://www.ruddercraft.com/catalog/...d=429&osCsid=fbdae98dd44f7120bf857305e99b16f7
-no affiliation.
I had that discussion before - I have an original rudder and have NO problems with weather helm AT ALL, as long as the keel is in proper position (locking holes lined up), and the boat heels 10-30 degrees. I found no need to spend $400 for a new rudder at all. But, that's just my opinion.
Concur with all of the above. Do you have reef points? At 45 degrees your rudder won't
"bite" and you shouldn't be healing over that far anyway. Mac/Ventures have a big mainsail. If you are too far over just spill the main some and let it luff a little. It won't be pretty but it will work and help with the weather helm. it will be easier to control. Your jib will still give you plenty of drive and you won't round up.
"bite" and you shouldn't be healing over that far anyway. Mac/Ventures have a big mainsail. If you are too far over just spill the main some and let it luff a little. It won't be pretty but it will work and help with the weather helm. it will be easier to control. Your jib will still give you plenty of drive and you won't round up.
Thanks, sounds like a combination of mistakes, or as they say after a plane crash "a cascade of errors".
The keel was definitely not locked down. I'm not sure how to lock it down properly. There is a rope in one of the holes which can be secured onto a cleat on the handle. Looking at the above post, I'm pretty sure my rigging is wrong. Any words of wisdom here?
The keel was definitely not locked down. I'm not sure how to lock it down properly. There is a rope in one of the holes which can be secured onto a cleat on the handle. Looking at the above post, I'm pretty sure my rigging is wrong. Any words of wisdom here?
on the waterballast 26D there is nothing to lock down, unlike the iron keel 25's. just drop it to the stop (3').
the rudder needs to be perfectly straight and locked down. there should be a hole you can insert a pencil, or wood dowel.
once you see how straight it needs to be, you can setup a self releasing cleat and mark the lockdown line.
I have the balanced rudder, and it changed the boat's handling. - totally.
some add 2-3" leading edge to the stock rudder in a foil shape....
search for balanced macgregor rudder.
one problem with the HPDE blades is they have been known to snap. mine did, but was replaced... the newer ones seem to hold up better.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=balanced+macgregor+rudder
the rudder needs to be perfectly straight and locked down. there should be a hole you can insert a pencil, or wood dowel.
once you see how straight it needs to be, you can setup a self releasing cleat and mark the lockdown line.
I have the balanced rudder, and it changed the boat's handling. - totally.
some add 2-3" leading edge to the stock rudder in a foil shape....
search for balanced macgregor rudder.
one problem with the HPDE blades is they have been known to snap. mine did, but was replaced... the newer ones seem to hold up better.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=balanced+macgregor+rudder
The rope and cleat are 26S. There is no lock down on the rudder.
I was out yesterday and did about 28 miles. The day start out windy but I didn't reef. It was smooth sailing for the most part. Where I loose some rudder is in a beam reach when the waves are tossing the rear of the boat a little. I know what you mean.
The day was great, I made it about 3/4 the way across the bay and turned back. Got caught in a downpour as I was almost back. Got completely soaked but had a blast. No lightning or wind with the storm. Averaged 5.3-6.3 knots. !!!!
I was out yesterday and did about 28 miles. The day start out windy but I didn't reef. It was smooth sailing for the most part. Where I loose some rudder is in a beam reach when the waves are tossing the rear of the boat a little. I know what you mean.
The day was great, I made it about 3/4 the way across the bay and turned back. Got caught in a downpour as I was almost back. Got completely soaked but had a blast. No lightning or wind with the storm. Averaged 5.3-6.3 knots. !!!!
Attachments
Last edited: