Fearless or experienced?

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

If you had a choice and could only pick one trait, would you rather venture out on a coastal cruise as a newbe with someone fearless or someone with experience?
Keep in mind that you are brand spanking new at sailing and the fearless partner knows less than you do.
Which trait would you choose?

Tony B

 

[Recess]

I have surfed all my life

Fearless surfers get hurt real fast. A little bit of fear in the ocean is a damn good thing to have. I would stay on land if I had to choose a fearless sailor with no experience. I would go out with a newbie with a healthy amount of fear of what could go wrong though.

 

[Patrick , S/V Shangra-La]

If I'm a newbe....

Give me an experienced sailor any time. When going out now I like my experienced sailing buddies. I will take a newbe with us so he can learn, but I want at least one other experienced person with me. It's too easy to get into trouble out there, and I want some one else who knows what he is doing, I sleep better.

 

[MoonSailer]

This is a Joke ,right!!!!!

Fools run where the angels fear to tread!!!! Fear is nature's way to keep us alive. A fearless person or animal is in trouble and will probably have a short life. I have my confidence test that I use personally. If I am confident that I can do something I am almost always successfull. But my confidence is based upon experience not just a stupid lack of fear. The biggest problem with fear is when it clouds your judgement and hinders appropriate actions. Last weekend a scuba diving buddy asked me what I did when I paniced underwater. I told him (honestly) that I have never paniced. When you panic you die!!!!! Panic is where fear overcomes logic and reason and you do the wrong thing or do nothing at all. I have a pilots license and that is another area where you never panic. Even if you know that you are going to crash and probably die you keep control of yourself and the plane as long as possible.
But to answer your question . Experience trumps fearlessness. But an experienced fearless captain is best. As they say in flying. And experienced pilot uses his superior experience and knowledge to avoid getting into situations that require his to use his superior flying skills. Another quote from flying. """There are no old bold pilots."""

 

[Liam]

Experienced

"Fearless" individuals throughout the history of mankind have been culled from the gene pool for good reason. Fear and the adrenalin that it produces are survival responses that are programmed into "almost" all living things.
Anyone who says that they are fearless is either a fool or a liar.
Anyone who truly is fearless is not long for the world.

 

[Brian D]

Gonna have to go with everyone on this one...

Experienced all the way.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Change of course

"fearless" was a bad choice of words. Lets change that to mean someone that does not panic and has more courage than most yet is not suicidal. The description is used in lack of a better word that most of you wont take too literally.
The above personality will be the one opposed to someone of unknown courage but has some experience in sailing.
Keep in mind that once the choice is made, your trip will depend on it.
Also, your experience is virtually zero, but you have read a lot.

Tony B

 

[Maine Sail]

Is this..

Some sort of trick question..?? The answer seems very, very obvious...

 

[liam]

same answer

No matter how you slice it... there is no substitute for experience.
Most people who participate in high risk behavior will tell you that they "always" experience fear, hesitation, trepidation, etc. just prior to the activity.
Take for instance a skydiver. They always have a moment of hesitation before the jump.
Or how about a bullfighter? Do you think that they have a sense of fear? At some point in time, the bullfighter has absolutely NO experience! But I would bet that the bullfighter has enough fear to help him gain a little experience.
How about the old joke about there being two kinds of cliff divers in Acapulco... The very experienced and stuff on a rock! The latter gives the former good reason for fear.

 

[Ross]

I would always choose the experienced companion

If I were going alone I would choose caution and an understanding of how the systems worked.

 

[Patrick , S/V Shangra-La]

Check the site called "Darwin Awards"

It will show you what happens to fearless, inexperienced or novice people.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Not a trick question

My sailing experience is definately different than most. Me and GF taught ourselves to sail on our very first trip. We sailed coastal from Ms. to Fl. Sometimes being out of sight of land for as much as 6 to 8 hours. We are not stupid. We are not daredevils and we are not wreckless. We made it 600 miles round trip through some thunder storms and rough weather where we got caught by unforecasted bad weather, but nothing serious. We just werent afraid and she had confidence in me to the point that she would do anything I told her to do, without questioning, if an emergency cropped up. Blind faith, I guess. But she is not the panicy type either. We were in our new to us MacGregor 25. I had done some reading about sailing before the trip and felt prepared. The boat was as simple as one can get and even through the T storms, there were no surprises. Everything happened and went as I expected it to, more or less. I knew from reading that the boat could handle much more than we could and never felt in danger, although stressed at times.
From the way she reacted when she had to, ( a few scarey moments) I knew that I would rather have her than almost anyone else I knew. Of course, at the time, I didnt know any sailors.
It wasnt until a few years later that I actually sailed on another boat with an experienced sailor. It was a Hunter 30 and the sailor had sailed most of his life. When a dark cloud appeared over the horizon and was moving in rather rapidly, he came unglued. All he wanted to do was drop the sails and race to the harbor. I tried to calm him down, I began by reefing the main and assured him I knew what I was doing. The storm, nasty as it looked, never hit us. With all of his experience, he was not worth a darn when the chips were down.
That reinforced my feelings that someone that will follow a command unquestioningly is worth a lot more than an experienced sailor of unknown level of courage, for lack of a better word.
I am in no way insinuating that all experienced sailors are anywhere like him, and am not trying to start a fight.
My original question is about a sailing partner of unknown qualities, except that he has had many many years of sailing experience as opposed to one that will do what is necessary unquestioningly, with no experience.
So, this is a curious question, not a trick question.

Tony B

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Should the Darwin Awards also go to

Chuck Yager, the crew of the Apollo 11, almost all of the Generals that shaped history. Read about the American Revolution, George Washington should be a lifetime member of the Darwin Awards.
The early settlers of our country all deserve them. Why not give them to the troups in Iraq or Afghanastan? Hell, the whole entire police force and firefighters on this planet also deserve them.
Anyone of them has put themselves in much more danger than someone on a sailboat.

Tony B

 

[Ross]

Tony , like I said caution and an understanding

of the systems will go farther than experience. We all run out of experience at some point and then we rely on caution and understanding.

 

[Guest]

lack of experience is why

Some people should stay inside. I don't care how many books you read, if you have not been out there you don't know what it is like. You may not even be able to function at all because you are sea sick or just plain scared.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Ross

You should become an author.
You almost always seem to say the most with the least amount of words without being offensive. Heck, become a politician. Then you will be able to display acting skills also.
Problem is, you are probably too honest and ethical for politics.

Caution and understanding do go a long way.
On my Mac 25, I only had 3 lines to deal with. No furling and no reef points. Never needed the winch. Its about as basic as one can get. Not too much to understand.
After my first rough storm, I added a downhaul for the jib.
After my second rough storm I added lazy jacks and a downhaul for the main.

Tony B

 

[Dave D, '94 H26]

??????

Hey thanks for not registering! Wonder who THAT could be!

Isn't that like your first interview after college? You can't get a job because you don't have experience and you can't get experience because you can't get the job. Kind of like saying "if your not already outside, you have to stay inside"

I'd take the experienced skipper and probably get thrown overboard for asking questions and second guessing him.

 

[bio]

Fear evolved for a reason...

all those people with bumper stickers stating "no fear" are full of crap. The amydalga creates fear in situations when caution has statistically helped keep animals alive (and thus pass on amygdalas (with organisims) capable of producing fear).

Having said that I am all about pushing the limit. First trip out of Charleston harbor we were so enamoured with going past the outer bouy...we celebrated with a shot of rum...then noticed the very large wake, from a traincar carrying boat, that was seconds from us. Grabed the tiller and hit that baby at a 45...I bet at least half of the boat was out of the water as we shot over the wave...we slammed down, yelled whoohooouu, and did another shot! We don't get ridiculous drunk...but I do like to party and sail...I like to let the wind pull my rails deep into the water. I like excitement and a bit of calculated danger.

If I had to pick, obviously it would be the experienced sailor...but I would prefer one who also wanted to push the limits too.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39]

Fear vs. confidence

I didnt think that everyone would jump on the word 'fear' so literally. So, let me ask another question.
Would you consider 'fear' as a direct correlation to confidence?
Again, try not to be too literal.
Would you say that if you were to fight another person, that you would be 'less' scared if you were confident that you could easily take him. On the other side of the coin, wouldn't you be more scared if it were Mike Tyson?
Logic, reasoning and confidence would be the major players here.
As some already have eluded to, fear itself is not a bad thing. Its the ability to overcome or not overcome your fears that are really the issue.
Very few people are truely fearless, and yes, nature has a way of removing them from the gene pool. I am certainly not fearless or foolhardy, just confident about certain things. Definately not all things. Bungee jumping and skydiving are definately out.

Tony B

 

[Ross]

No Name reply #14 ,Human babies come into this world with no experience

They must learn about their bodies and how they work. Nothing is instinctive. They get hungry and all they can do is complain and someone feeds them, if they are wet and need changing they know only that they are uncomfortable so they complain. But they learn very quickly what works and what doesn't and they will refuse food if they want dry diapers. Babies do come hard wired to fear sudden loss of support. They stiffen almost instantly if you are holding them and let them drop a couple of inches before you catch them . Before long they learn that can be fun. They try everything and gain experience all the while exhibiting considerable caution. They have accidents but they never crawl to and edge and continue over intentionally. They understand the system and they exercize caution. If babies took your advise they would choose to never be born. After all the safest and most comfortable they will ever be in in the womb.