FCC vs BoatUS for MMSI

[Scott T-Bird]

I'm not a radio guy and I am awkward at best when using my VHF. That said, I recently purchased a new fixed-mount radio with DSC and need to obtain a MMSI. When I did this a several years ago on my previous boat, I simply obtained the number from BoatUS because there was no intention to wander far.

This time, I still may never go anywhere internationally, but is there any reason not to fill out the 605 form with FCC to obtain an international MMSI?

I've been on the FCC web site to learn more and it just leads to more questions about this than answers. For instance, what is the difference between the Ship Station licence (good for 10 years) and the Operators license (lifetime)? Do you have to get both or does the operator license come with the ship station? (both seem to be based on the 605 form). Is there any special knowledge that I need to obtain or test for - or is it just a simple form to fill out with application fee? Is there a chance of being rejected?

It seems a little intimidating to go the FCC route, but if it's not then why should I limit myself to domestic waters only? Who's going to stop you from communicating on your radio anyway? I suppose using the call sign is obligatory, true?

 

[dlochner]

The FCC website seems to have been written by geeks for geeks and we mere mortals struggle with finding our way.

If you never plan to leave US waters, then go with BOAT/US. If there is some faint chance you might leave US Waters, some day, go with Boat/US. If you have a pretty good idea of when you will be leaving, go with the FCC.

No license of any kind is needed to operate a marine VHF in US waters. By international treaty, use of marine VHF in foreign waters requires an FCC Ships Station License and at least one person with a Restricted Radio Operator's license must be aboard.

The Ship's Station License gets you an MMSI number for the boat and licensing all the radio devices on board (VHF, EPIRB, Radar, AIS, etc.) It is valid for 10 years. The Restricted Radio Operator's license is issued to a person and is good for life. At one time passing a simple test was required, now it is only necessary to claim you know how to read and write and have the check clear.

While some may claim that the waters of Barnegat Bay and NJ are quite foreign, I don't think a FCC MMSI is needed. A Boat/US issued MMSI will be adequate.

I suspect in some areas, like the Great Lakes the licensing requirements are not strictly followed. I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble for not having a license, although it could be one more thing to get charged with in case of an accident or other infraction.

 

[dLj]

@Scott T-Bird I agree the FCC page is very hard to follow. As you know, I was looking for international coverage so went the FCC path.

I actually found a phone number, called someone in the FCC and they sent me a link (I think, or maybe we did it on the phone, not sure now) and it was very easy. Doing it through the FCC gave me everything I needed, ship license, MMSI number, call sign, basically the whole nine yards.

I don't know what you end up getting with the BoatUS method, but once I found the right path, the FCC method was really simple and I had everything within 24 hours.

If you never leave the US, probably doesn't matter. But if there is ever a chance you might go to say Canada, you are done using the FCC path.

The other advantage, you have to program all your equipment with your MMSI number. That can be a real pain to change down the road. Some equipment can't be changed without sending whatever unit into an authorized firm. That was the case for me with my AIS unit. It came with the MMSI from the previous owner programmed into it. I had to contact the manufacturer and find an authorized shop to reprogram the unit. That took over a month. Some units you can reprogram without doing that, or can only do it once. So think about that aspect with whatever equipment you have. On my boat I have the AIS transceiver, the VHS unit, and a SSB unit. All three needed to be reprogrammed. So if you might head off, that's a consideration

dj

 

[kappykaplan]

but once I found the right path, the FCC method was really simple and I had everything within 24 hours.

Same for me. Did it all on line.

 

[TimFromLI]

I just got an MMSI for my new radio from US power squadron, it was fairly simple.

 

[dlochner]

I just got an MMSI for my new radio from US power squadron, it was fairly simple.

That's the same program BoatUS uses. It is not the same as the FCC number as your data will not be included in the international SAR database. This is particularly problematic with EPIRBs and DSC Distress calling as the only information the SAR agencies will get is the MMSI number and location, but they won't know what kind of boat, who' owns the boat, and won't have contact info for the boat owner.

 

[Stu Jackson]

and I am awkward at best when using my VHF.

It is an unfortunate reality, for some, Scott. When I first started boating on San Francisco Bay on my own boat in 1983, I was fortunate to be able to listen into how to properly use a VHF by listening to the professionals on Vessel Traffic VHF Ch 14. It works also here on Vancouver Island. In your neck of the woods I doubt if you have that luxury and based on what I hear from recreational boats both here in British Columbia as well a back in SF, their behavior is appalling.
Oddly enough, it is NOT hard. Indeed, most radios come with how to use instructions and a Google search will also answer the question. It takes discipline.

 

[dlochner]

I'm not a radio guy and I am awkward at best when using my VHF.

It is an unfortunate reality, for some, Scott. When I first started boating on San Francisco Bay on my own boat in 1983, I was fortunate to be able to listen into how to properly use a VHF by listening to the professionals on Vessel Traffic VHF Ch 14. It works also here on Vancouver Island. In your neck of the woods I doubt if you have that luxury and based on what I hear from recreational boats both here in British Columbia as well a back in SF, their behavior is appalling.
Oddly enough, it is NOT hard. Indeed, most radios come with how to use instructions and a Google search will also answer the question. It takes discipline.

This is mic fright, a fairly common phenomena with new Ham radio operators. My father was a Ham and would easily talk on the radio, then he'd ask me to say something and suddenly I went mute. Calling 60 lock masters, countless bridge tenders, and innumerable wake throwing powerboats on the ICW, did a lot to help me become more comfortable on the radio. Like any fear with practice and patience it can be overcome or at least made manageable so it does not interfere with life, well, almost any fear mast climbing is an exception.

Mic Fright and Your First Contact

Mic fright is a general term for anxiety leading to freezing, choking or hesitating when speaking into a microphone (mic). The physiological response of worrying about saying the right thing to an…

newhams.info

 

[Kings Gambit]

In your neck of the woods I doubt if you have that luxury and based on what I hear from recreational boats both here in British Columbia as well a back in SF, their behavior is appalling.

Are we talking here only about “formal” use of the VHF; i.e., the protocols applied when hailing or communicating on VHF Ch16 with commercial traffic, the USCG, or other “official” stations (e.g., bridge tenders). Whose behavior is “appalling?”

Recreational boaters are not obliged IMO to follow any “official protocols” when talking to each other on a working channel (e.g., 68, 69, 71, 72) after a proper hailing on VHF Ch 16. There are many informal ship to ship communications between recreational boaters. That’s why they assign us those channels—we’re “out of the way” of most official/formal radio traffic. The fact that we have DSC now enables such conversations without hailing in the open, so avoids that “exposure” to VHF protocol, etc. No need to feel awkward talking on a working channel to your friends that you are cruising with, IMO.

I just wish more recreational boaters would use the DSC. It’s sometimes difficult to insert a new MMSI number in a radio on a boat of a previous owner. But are we even supposed to? I learned that an MMSI number (i. e., “station license”), once issued, stayed with the boat (not necessarily the radio unit). Rather like a USCG Documentation number. Is this not true?

 

[dlochner]

I learned that an MMSI number (I.e., “station license”), once issued, stayed with the boat (not necessarily the radio unit). Rather like a USCG Documentation number. Is this not true?

The MMSI and the Station License are different. The MMSI is a vessel identifier, not a radio identifier. The Station License shows the vessel has been allowed to use a VHF radio on the marine bands. With a Station License the ship gets a call sign, the Call Sign assigned to Second Star is WDI4626, its MMSI is 367700430. The MMSI is associated with SAR Databases, the call sign not.

 

[Kings Gambit]

The MMSI and the Station License are different. The MMSI is a vessel identifier, not a radio identifier. The Station License shows the vessel has been allowed to use a VHF radio on the marine bands. With a Station License the ship gets a call sign, the Call Sign assigned to Second Star is WDI4626, its MMSI is 367700430. The MMSI is associated with SAR Databases, the call sign not.

I once knew that; thanks for the reminder. I had a station license for the VHF on my 1979 Pearson 30. This was before the MMSI “system” came along, if I remember.

 

[dLj]

It’s sometimes difficult to insert a new MMSI number in a radio on a boat of a previous owner. But are we even supposed to? I learned that an MMSI number (i. e., “station license”), once issued, stayed with the boat (not necessarily the radio unit). Rather like a USCG Documentation number. Is this not true?

It is not required, it can be done. You have to have the previous owner "give" the number to you, you have to update all the contact information and such. I didn't do that on my boat, but it could have been an option. I understand there are pro's and con's to getting the previous owners MMSI number switched to you compared to getting a new MMSI number assigned to you and your boat. It is supposed to be difficult to switch the number in the units onboard to impede theft.

Some units will allow you to do it, others you must take the unit to an approved technician. My SSB allows you to change the MMSI number once in it's lifetime. After that you must bring the unit to an authorized shop. My AIS unit does not allow you the change the MMSI number. It must be brought into a shop. When I did that, I had to show the boat documentation proving I was the new owner as well as the FCC documentation showing that the MMSI number was assigned to me.

dj

 

[Stu Jackson]

Whose behavior is “appalling?”

Recreational boaters are not obliged IMO to follow any “official protocols” when talking to each other on a working channel (e.g., 68, 69, 71, 72) after a proper hailing on VHF Ch 16. There are many informal ship to ship communications between recreational boaters. That’s why they assign us those channels—we’re “out of the way” of most official/formal radio traffic.

I usually agree with you, KG, but this ^^^ is part of the part I find to be appalling behavior. It is simply not true. The working channels are there for more prolonged discussions, sure, but since they are part of the public airwaves, and while perhaps not formally "codified," BoatUS says this about the very channels you mention:

What channels should you use for regular conversations? Channels 68, 69, 71, 72, and 78A are considered non-commercial channels, and in most areas, 68 and 72 are commonly used by the recreational-boating community. But remember that the VHF is officially for "operational" purposes. This can be as informal as passing on a weather report, but conversations about what the dog chewed up yesterday are inappropriate.

It's a matter of courtesy, not privilege.

 

[dlochner]

I usually agree with you, KG, but this ^^^ is part of the part I find to be appalling behavior. It is simply not true. The working channels are there for more prolonged discussions, sure, but since they are part of the public airwaves, and while perhaps not formally "codified," BoatUS says this about the very channels you mention:

What channels should you use for regular conversations? Channels 68, 69, 71, 72, and 78A are considered non-commercial channels, and in most areas, 68 and 72 are commonly used by the recreational-boating community. But remember that the VHF is officially for "operational" purposes. This can be as informal as passing on a weather report, but conversations about what the dog chewed up yesterday are inappropriate.

It's a matter of courtesy, not privilege.

In many popular cruising ports, like Georgetown Bahamas, there is a daily "Cruisers Net" where all of the days events, notices, for sale items, etc are announced each morning. There has been some controversy about this practice in recent months as the broadcasts are sometimes lengthy and have no relation to operational purposes beyond looking for the next social gathering.

 

[Kings Gambit]

In many popular cruising ports, like Georgetown Bahamas, there is a daily "Cruisers Net" where all of the days events, notices, for sale items, etc are announced each morning. There has been some controversy about this practice in recent months as the broadcasts are sometimes lengthy and have no relation to operational purposes beyond looking for the next social gathering.

I suppose "operational purposes" could be broad. I admit I rarely have had lengthy "conversations" on VHF channels, and never about life ashore, etc, unless I'm talking to someone ashore. But back in the days of Marine Operators (1980's and "90'd), I recall the operator-facilitated ship to shore conversations. I even had a couple myself then, and I'm pretty sure I was talking over the VHF radio! Would people really call home via the Santa Barbara or San Diego Marine Operator ($$) to discuss sea operations? Maybe the fishermen would.

Anyway. I normally agree with Stu as well; I just see this differently. If we're talking to our companion boats on Ch 71 about when to arrive at our boat for happy hour and what to bring over, there's no need to be constrained by VHF formal protocols, IMO. Isn't that "recreational boating?”

 

[Stu Jackson]

Anyway. I normally agree with Stu as well; I just see this differently. If we're talking to our companion boats on Ch 71 about when to arrive at our boat for happy hour and what to bring over, there's no need to be constrained by VHF formal protocols, IMO. Isn't that "recreational boating."

Perhaps we ARE agreeing, after all, and splitting hairs on the quantity and not the quality of those public channel airwaves. At least I hope so and I know your heart's in the right place.

I would simply like to reiterate that snippet I took from BoatUS. Here's the whole thing:

VHF Radio Protocol

Here's how to use your VHF radio the right way so you can be understood, and get what you need.

www.boatus.com

Indeed, they include:
Whatever type of conversation you may be having, remember that no one else within a 20-mile range can talk on that channel while you're talking. Considering the limited number of appropriate channels, an extended conversation can inconvenience a large number of other boaters. So keep your VHF communications brief and to the point. If you're communicating with a boat that's close by (within a mile or two), you should switch over to low power. Both fixed-mount and handheld VHFs have low-power settings, which limit the range of your broadcast and thereby limit the number of other boaters you may be blocking out due to your transmission.

They also include DSC.

They conclude with:
Think of VHF communications like the highways and byways of our nation. They're public, everyone uses them, and everyone benefits from them. But they can become clogged with overuse and unpleasant due to discourtesy. Follow the proper VHF protocol, and everyone will be in for a better boating experience — and a safer one, too

Cruisers Nets are just fine, IMHO. Why? Because the LOCAL community, who are the only people affected by the use of THAT ONE CHANNEL are using it for the public good and ALL of the OTHER CHANNELS are open and free to use. These nets actually FREE UP other working channels - think about it.

Here in BC often fishermen are abusing their rights by holding down a transmit button on a working channel and BS-ing for hours about what they landed, and, of course, never where they did so. It is annoying if all of the other very few working channels are in use and you would like to make a short connection for personal purposes. And please don't say "Use DSC." Not everyone has one, but are still using legal VHF equipment. The advantages of DSC are they get a lot of BS off the public airwaves and at the same time open up the few working channels.

So, thanks, KG, so providing illumination for a very important subject.

I hope Scott watches those videos on stage fright.