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FCC online nightmare

Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
@ Jackdaw, relax only meant figuratively. I did read some where that they could impound the boat until fines were paid.

@25yearslater, I doubt that it applies to US citizens but I could be wrong. I'll dig out the Port Harbour Regs and see what it says.
You might look at this website http://www.portstoronto.com/Port/Powered-Vessel-Operators-Permit/Apply-for-a-Permit.aspx

I have the License but have never been asked to show it in the last 10 years
I figured that! ;-) the Canucks are pretty chill. And I'm willing to bet that the worst thing they could do is fine you and let you go. 99% of the time a warning. And that's in the one in 100 time they would ask.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,385
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Canada IS a separate country - please respect our laws.

druid
You have a point.

But tell it to the Thunder Bay chamber of commerce, when 30 US boats (and their money) don't show up for the LS PHRF championships because they don't possess a piece of paper from the US FCC that the CCG does not care about.
 
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Jan 14, 2014
225
Newport Newport 28 Fair Haven, NY
I went through the same process (and I think I used the same step-by-step, actually). I figure that way I'm covered for years whenever I decide to cross and tie up. Or, for when I cast off someday for other shores, I'll be set that way. Personally, regardless of the sanity of it all, it seemed a small enough per-year cost for me to justify just going ahead and getting them set up.
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
Agreed CharlzO. The year over year cost isn't that bad. As Jackdaw said in the flares thread, "Kwitcher whining, sailing is supposed to be expensive." I don't know what I thought the cost might be but it seemed a bit shocking as a lump sum at first. The FCC site was a bit daunting as every time I was clicking to begin the form it rerouted me to the login. 4 hours of my life I'll never get back. Glad it's winter or I'd have been really furious. By the way I organized a meetup.com site that is connecting people who sail with people with boats on Lake Ontario if you would like to join. I'd like to connect the entire area we are in to give people a chance to savor all we have for sailing. Here is the link: http://www.meetup.com/Point-Breeze-South-Shore-Sailing-Meetup/ I actually changed the name to Lake Ontario/Finger Lakes Sailing Meetup since we are getting more boats across the area and a wide range of people also.
 
Jul 1, 2010
871
Seaward 25, Catalina 350 Erie, Pa
All you need to use your radio in Canada is a Restricted Operator's License (RR) from the FCC. You will have to register and then can do it online. Canada takes our restricted operator's license as equivalent to their ROC. Whether you decide to get a ship's license or not is up to you. Canada doesn't care about this, the US says you're supposed to have it for international travel. If you get an MMSI # for your radio you technically should get one from the FCC for international travel rather than one from Boat US, or equivalent, so it gets entered into the right international databases. That would require a ship's license for your radio. Good luck navigating the FCC web site...P.I.T.A.

http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=rr
 
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Aug 13, 2012
531
Catalina 270 Ottawa
From what I understand I had to get my ROC (Radio Operators Certificate) . Consists of a test and one time fee. Then I also needed my station license which is a yearly $35 fee so that I can cross into US waters legally. If I stay in Canadian waters I don't need any documentation.
Joker460,
I hate to disagree with you (or disappoint you), but even if you don`t leave Canadian waters, you need a radio operator`s certificate and it has to have the DSC endorsement, if your radio has it. I don`t think they can impound your boat, but the fine is hefty ($250?). And you are right, you need the station licence, if you leave the country. This web site explains this all in detail (https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/oep-navigation-radiocomms-faqs-1489.htm).
 
Jul 1, 2010
871
Seaward 25, Catalina 350 Erie, Pa
Joker460,
I hate to disagree with you (or disappoint you), but even if you don`t leave Canadian waters, you need a radio operator`s certificate and it has to have the DSC endorsement, if your radio has it. I don`t think they can impound your boat, but the fine is hefty ($250?). And you are right, you need the station licence, if you leave the country. This web site explains this all in detail (https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/oep-navigation-radiocomms-faqs-1489.htm).
The catch is ...(unless something has changed since I last researched it a couple of years ago) that a US citizen cannot get a Canadian ROC, so they accept the US Restricted Operators License as equivalent. OP should do his own research, as you can't believe (or trust) anything I say anyhow :) (Just ask my wife).

FWIW, from here:

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-quick-quick_visitor-1610.htm#7

"Anyone who uses a VHF radio must follow the procedures described in the VHF Radiotelephone Practices and Procedures Regulations. Currently, all VHF radio operators are required to have a Restricted Operator's Certificate (ROC) with maritime qualifications. Canada recognizes the American Certificate."

Concerning the station license... for us in the US. We are supposed to have it to travel internationally....for you guys in Canada, Canada says you're supposed to have your version of that to travel internationally. Canada doesn't care if we have it...US doesn't care if you have it. So tell me...who's checking who?? I know I'm confused on that one.
 
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Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
Right you are sesmith. The Restricted Operator Certificate from the FCC is accepted in Canada: Currently, all VHF radio operators are required to have a Restricted Operator's Certificate (ROC) with maritime qualifications. Canada recognizes the American Certificate. That license is only $65. I ran the application this morning to see what the difference was and there was the foreign travel question posted. It doesn't offer a DSC number which the 605 SA app does. That was the only big difference I saw.
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
This is a 25yearslater special report:
With help from fellow sailors at SBO and following the directions at OffshoreStore our stalwart adventurer was able to complete the application for the Restricted Radio License and plunk down his money in 12 minutes thus clearing him to operate in Canadian waters.
This has been a 25yearslater special report.
So there we have it. I can legally operate a radio when in Canada in case someone gives a Shazit. I won't receive an MMSI number with this license but I don't have any plans to interface my laptop with the radio for DSC service. The first pull down menu about type of license has many options. The RR is the individual operator license. Cost $65. The SA is the ship voluntary license. An important distinction being the ship is licensed and not an individual as with the RR. Anyone can use the radio as long as the licensee is present with the RR. The ship license authorizes anyone aboard to operate the radio without supervision. The restricted license is also good for life where the ship license is subject to renewal. So thanks again folks and I hope we all learned something interesting this weekend.
 
Feb 17, 2006
5,102
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
25yearslater, I believe the SA license is similar to the Amateur Radio license. It does not allow anyone to operate the SSB radio unless the SA/RR licensee is present. I can't remember where I read that but I will look for it again and post it.
 
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Dec 28, 2009
397
Macgregor M25 trailer
Some thing I've been wondering about is, do I need the RR license, I hold a First class radiotelephone, amateur extra and the boat station license.
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
From the volumes I read this weekend I think you are set with the boat station license Fred. That was the SA (ship voluntary) license and would apply to your boat. The RR is an individual license without the MMSI number and follows you for life where the SA follows the boat even when sold.
 
Mar 20, 2004
1,662
Hunter 356 and 216 Portland, ME
Umm, OK - if the license is good for life, than my RR license - which predates the FCC getting computers - is still good as long as I don't lose the very yellow ID card - and it doesn't rot away. So to cross into Canada I only need the international MMSI #...
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
The way I read everything Chuck is the SA license is required for the MMSI feature that enables DSC. If you are using strictly voice then the RR is sufficient. Canada accepts the RR as their ROC. That was the https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-obs-quick-quick_visitor-1610.htm#7 that sesmith supplied from Transport Canada. The U.S. requires the assignment by the FCC of the MMSI number for use in foreign countries. This is also acceptable for use in Canada with the SA license which is a prerequisite for the MMSI. There is no option for an FCC assigned MMSI number with the RR.
 
Feb 14, 2014
5,711
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Next trick is to get a license since I will be heading for Canada.
Glad you resolved it!
But...
You don't need a license to RECEIVE FM, any where in the free world.

You can TRANSMIT FM in an emergency ANY TIME!

Most harbors and bridge tenders have a phone number to call using your cell phone (no license required).

So @Jackdaw said it best, don't sweat it, because you won't break any Free Sovereign Country's rules.
Jim...
 
Aug 20, 2010
1,399
Oday 27 Oak Orchard
To distill it a bit further, here is a good summary:

1. Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit (RR) — permits an individual to communicate on marine MF/HF (SSB) and internationally on marine VHF frequencies.
2. Radio Station License, Ship Recreational or Voluntarily Equipped (SA) — licenses the operation of a shipboard radio on marine MF/HF (SSB) and internationally on marine VHF frequencies. The operator must be, or be supervised by, an individual with a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit.

For voice and/or data communications on amateur radio frequencies (in addition to, or instead of marine frequencies), the following license is required:

3. Amateur Radio License (HA), General Class — permits an individual to operate on amateur radio frequencies, including VHF and HF bands (note that a Technician Class license does not permit HF operation).
 
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Mar 20, 2004
1,662
Hunter 356 and 216 Portland, ME
Thanks! That was my reading, too - I was trying to figure out if the RR ever expires, like most FCC fee collecting licenses do....
 
Aug 13, 2012
531
Catalina 270 Ottawa
You can receive FM transmission anywhere in the world, but if you do it using a marine VHF radio, you need a certificate (ROC) (or RR in the US). If you have a radio installed on the boat and you don,t have the certificate and the CG checks you, you will be subject to a fine. Btw. even a portable VHF radio requires a certificate. I understand that the reasoning behind it is that there are way too many people who use VHF and have no clue how to.

Another btw. the RR (or ROC) does not include the MMSI, because it (RR/ROC) is an individual certificate, not a licence for the radio. You program the MMSI into the radio and it identifies the vessel, not the operator.

And as far as I know, there are no domestic and international MMSI; rather, the differnce is only in how they are recorded (registered) - the "international" one is recorded with the Coast Guard, so it is available to the rest of the world, as well. The easy thing on Canada is that there are no distinction and you get the MMSI number from Transport Canada and it is valid in Canada and abroad.