Fatal accident on Buzzards Bay

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A

Alan

Mike

You've made ONE true statement, "Your all right, i am a moron ..."

What in the hell would YOU have done if YOU were in that sailboat??????????????

UNITE my ass, they need to give guys like this competency tests to prove they can handle their machines.
 
N

Nice N Easy

I'll just say this

There is an idiot adding to this post, and I am not even going to comment. Others have done a pretty good job.
 
T

Tim R.

Whiney stinkpotter

There are far more ignorant powerboaters out there than sailboaters asserting there rights unneccessarily.
 
J

JungleJetJock

Speed

The speed argument does not really hold water. For starters, 3 knots is a pretty slow sailboat. 30 knots is relatively slow as well. When driving on the highway people easily do twice that speed and can still miss road debris. I frequently travel at about 20 times that speed and am still able to see and avoid. Also, there are sailboats capable of speeds over 30 knots, with record for a sail powered vessel being 49.09 kts. I am not going to get into what position everyone was in based on media reports since they will get the color of sky wrong but the only time (when 2 vessels are under way) that a vessel solely under sail and a vessel under power meet and the sailor isn't the stand on vessel, is when a sailboat over takes a powerboat and that did not occur here.

I think the most important thing to take from this tragedy is that a day on the water can turn from great to tragic in an instant, and this was a tragedy for ALL those affected. While I do not know all the facts surrounding the accident, it does serve as a reminder that we have the choice of being right or being dead, so please make the right choice.

Be Safe
 
M

Mike

To Alan (AKA My Sailboat has no rudder)

Hey Al, just a hypothetical question for you. Your traveling north, another vessel is traveling south, it appears to you (The Observant Sailor that you are) that you’re on an intersecting course, what would you do? That's right I forgot, A - you have no rudder and B your under Sail (You have "The Right of Way"), so the answer would be, Nothing, you would do nothing, because you don't have to. Wrong! (You have just put your life and the life of your crew in the hands of someone you do not know) As I said in a previous post you blowboaters are a threat to safe navigation not just to yourselves but to those around you. You have all said the same thing about your rights of way and about how you have limited maneuverability. If you can’t safely operate your vessel then haul it out of the water! When I run my big stinkpot my mindset is simple (Because my IQ is so Low, after all I am a MORON) I never have the right of way, I have a 50' Boat with over 2000HP, I give way ALL THE TIME, you want to know why? It's because I only rely on myself to prevent an accident from happening. It's pretty hard to get into an accident when at least 1 person is being vigilant in accident avoidance. If the 2nd person is being vigilant as well, then there is no chance for an accident. Gee I just solved my own mystery, here I am wasting my time posting to a thread full of ignorant blowboaters and it hit me. I have been on the water for 45 years, number of boating accidents in that time 0! Number of times I had to give way to a vessel that I had right of way over, To Many to Count! To bad you bunch of stuck up sailors turned what originally started as a concerned seaman asking questions trying to seek the truth, into a larger divide between Power Boaters and Sail Boaters. I guess it just goes to show that white and black sailors are accepted but Power Boaters need not reply! You’re still racist in my book!

If someway any of this thread finds it's way to any of the families involved I want to say I am very sorry, I did not intend for this to happen. I am very upset about what happened to your families and my most sincere thoughts and prayers are with you.
 
R

Ross

Mike , I have a wonderful idea!

Down here on the Chesapeake bay w have a mooring where they place the gravel barges until they have room for them at the quarry. You could practice collision avoidance with those. The wind and tides shift them around so that they would seem to be able to get out of you way. And if it turns out that they can't manuever quickly enough, you can just run them down and we won't mind at all.
 
C

capn jim

some folks attitude really suck!

the attitude that we should have first and foremost as sailors, its our duty and responsibility to stay out of the way of power boaters. we are a menace to their getting to where they want to go, at whatever speed and direction they want to go. it is also our duty as drivers of cars to stay out of the way of 18 wheelers.
as to some of the facts known so far, one boat was going roughly north, the other was headed to block island. he couldn't have been going south or he would have hit the sailboat head on. he hit it on the port side near the stern. now as to getting out of the way, with winds of 5 to 10 knots he might have been making 3knots so his ability to get out of the way would have been severely limited. i also seriously doubt that he had just tacked in front of the oncoming pb since the other person on board was below.
my question is, on a clear day with miles of visibility, how is it that he couldn't see a 38' boat with its sails up? if he in fact was watching, why would he decide to take the stern so close as to run over it? or wasn't he watching at all and had the pb on autopilot. a few yrs ago something just like this happened near Baltimore. a tug that was on autopilot ran down a sailboat and there wasn't even anyone in the pilot house.
based on the facts known so far it, it wouldn't surprise me to see the capt of the pb to be indicted for negligent homicide.

Mike; I'm sorry that we sailors are such a burden to you. we will try to do better to stay out of your way!
 
M

Mike

Hey Ross

There you go Ross, putting your vessel in harms way, i would steer clear of those barges so the chance of my hitting them is nill. Thanks for your truly inspirational post though. You guys have really opened my eyes, i used to actually respect sailors.
 
C

capn jim

Mike; you wonder why sailors have little respect for pbs?

why is it that when I'm under sail and there's a crossing situation do so many power boaters elect to cross my stern less than 10' from me or worse still cross my bow the same distance. Is it arrogance or just plain stupidity?
 
C

capn jim

mike; glad to know that!

I just don't understand why so many do! No power boater has ever given a good answer. a couple of the idiots nearly killed my wife a number of years ago with just such a stunt. we were in the C&D canal under power and two oncoming power boats criss crossed across our bow and threw such a wake that it knocked my wife off the helm onto a winch and nearly overboard.
 
R

Ross

Capt. Jim , I think it is a little bit like the

Mockingbirds and cats thing. The bird just has to buzz the cat because it is there. Some birds just ignore the cats but others have to be obnoxious. Some power boaters are very polite and considerate and others seem to suffer testerone poisoning. I once had a young father with his two kids on board 20 something fast powerboat go out of his way to pass closely. At the other end I had a man and wife overtake me and throttle back to about 6-7 knots and pass with a hundred feet or more clearance in the channel. No wake from him.
 
C

capn jim

Ross;

a few years ago we had our boat in New England for 3 yrs. when we first got up there we were amazed at how courteous and mindful most power boaters were of their wake to sailboats.

now the chesie! that's a horse of a different color.
 
P

Power & Sail

As another power boater/ sailor

As another life long power boater and sailor who has also run BIG private luxury yachts from 50 feet to over 100 feet (hint! it's NOT that tough guys even DOCKING) and who also ran a number of big sport fishing yachts out of Newcastle, NH, for many seasons, fishing for tuna, all I can say is that I'm horrified!

I'm horrified at Mike's responses and his utter lack of understanding of rules of the road and he truly gives power boaters a bad rap. It's too bad really..

Many power boaters are very proficient, I know many who eclipse the vast majority of sailors, but a good deal are NOT just as many sailors are NOT.

Using terms like "right of way" shows just how poor & clueless of a captain this guy really is. As a lifelong & current sailor, ex commercial fisherman & lux yacht mate and skipper I can honestly say that BOTH sides are full of idiots and Mike is surely among that crowd.

Though he tries to talk like a smart know it all he's really nothing more than an internet bully. A real tough guy behind the computer screen just like that country song.. He really is probably not all that tough in real life and would say NONE of this to any of our faces.

He was clearly beat up a lot as a kid by playground bullies and probably drives a red vette or Hummer to compensate for his utter lack of man hood. Any idiot that has to brag to sailors about his 2000 HP and how much tougher it is to drive power boat has some real issues.
 
A

Alan

Mike

If you will forgive me and give ME the right to answer the question you pose rather than YOU answering it for me.

In the crossing situation with another vessel I invariably would alter course to sail past the other boats stern. Your insertion of the unique situation that I have lost my rudder changes nothing. The ability to steer is not limited to a rudder. I can still use my sails to steer my boat and maintain a chosen course. Your assumption that a rudder is a mandatory item for steering is incorrect.


But all of this aside, Mike. You have put yourself in the indefensible position of having to defend all power boaters which you simply cannot do. You may be a diligent and knowledgeable skipper with years of incident free experience. However, a large number of your mates in the power boating ranks cannot claim such an austere record. Most of us sailors have had numerous run ins and near misses with power boaters who didn't have the knowledge or courtesy or both to know what they should be doing. All this leaves most sailors with a bad taste in the mouth about power boating in general although unhappily it does include those such as yourself.
You made a bad decision to try and defend this idiot that has now killed another but you make a worse choice to continue your quest in the wake of all these skippers that have innumerable incidents to relate to you.
 
T

tcbro

Hey Mike,

You said that us "blowboaters" are always trying to "enforce our right of way". Think about this, we hold our course because that is what a knowledgable skipper would expect us to do. The regs say that the stand on vessel maintains it's course and the give way vessel alters course to avoid a collision. We do what the regs say because if we don't we will just be adding confusion to the situation. If you are a knowledgable skipper you should be expecting a boat under sailpower to hold course. That's not "enforcing our right of way", it's following the regulations. Of course, every boat has the responsibility to avoid a collision regardless of who has the "right of way" (which we all know is an erroneous term).


In one of your posts you called yourself "a concerned seaman asking questions trying to seek the truth". Maybe you should re-read your original post. You came in here with a confrontational attidude in your very first post. By post #3 you resorted to name calling. And you wonder why your getting attitude???

You may not be a moron but you are an *******. If you are looking for respect you'll have to look somewhere else.
 
J

John

Question

First of all, a disclaimer: I am not a power boater and never have been. I am not into driving fast either. But I do want to ask a hypothetical question (and hopefully, in the process, get us off the personal sniping):

Take a situation where two boats are moving in opposite directions, with one being the stand-on boat for whatever reason (starboard tack, one is under power, etc.) If the give way boat suddenly changes course and crosses in front of the stand-on boat and a collision results, who is considered to be at fault?

The reason I ask this is that I've been in that situation in a sense: I've had instances where I wanted to change tack to a starboard tack, and another boat was nearby. This would have made me the stand-on boat, but would have put me on a collision course with the other boat. Although technically the other boat would be at fault I suppose, I still think I would have been in the wrong to have so suddenly changed the situation. In a couple of such cases, I continued on the same tack past where I wanted to in order to avoid putting the other boat in a bad situation. In other cases, I steered off wind more than I wanted to in order to allow maneuvering room.

As far as this case: As I've said before, I have never seen a power boat here in the SF Bay fail to yield to a sail boat -- except those really, really big ones. (I think they call the freighters!)
 
B

Breaking wind

this is a great

thread, really guys?? who gives two shits what Mike thinks? last I checked this was a Sailing forum?

right? wrong? who gives a shit? sailboats have the right of way period!

even if the sailboat was @ fault, why let this numbnutts get you fired up?

$0.02
 
C

CharlieCobra

Ok, I've cooled back down to normal.

As far as power boaters go, we have mostly very good, seeming educated one's up here in the PNW. I've seen more mistakes by sailors up this way the power boaters. The issue usually lies with the monthly warriors. Those folks who us their boat maybe once a month during the Summer. Ya know, the ones ya watch bounce off the docks or other boats while getting in and out of their slips. Then there's the occasional hot dog who blasts through a group of boats in a narrow waterway at 30 knots while jumping wakes, waves and nearly losing control of their boat. Then there's the clueless sailor who tacks across the bows of both other sailboats and powerboats alike without regard to safety, just because they're under sail. Yes, they're out there and probably what chaps Mike's butt. They chap my hide too there Buddy, trust me on this. At least we don't have many PWC's to worry about because the water's so dang cold. Regardless, my job is to operate my boat in a safe and consistent manner according to the Regs and to above all, AVOID a collision. If a converging vessel doesn't appear to see me, I change coarse as early as I deem necessary, depending on closing velocity, to avoid entanglement. Y'all stay safe out there.
 
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