Trying to get more speed down hill.I fly a 150 with a pole and topping lift. I run the cars all the way forward and let out the outhaul. Any suggestions on how I can get more speed?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
Darrel Richards
Fly a Spinaker
Sounds like you have done all you can with what you brung. Next step is the chute.
Sounds like you have done all you can with what you brung. Next step is the chute.
R
Robert Dean
Wing and Wing
Your efforts to obtain more speed with a 150 and a whisker pole are not unique. I fly a 155 with a whisker pole on my HL35 and do well. I do not change the position of the car as I do not use it when I set the whisker pole. I do use a barber hauler (spelling ??). The HL 35 has a nice slotted rub rail/toe rail to which I attache a block. I set this block about 9" forward of the car when it is set to go to weather. I run a line and hook (ie quick disconnec type) out to the clew of the 155 and then run the tail of this line to the cabin top winch. The object here is to get the clew and bottom of the 155 as low as possible. If I use the car and jib lead I would have to go up and over the life lines, which would prevent the clew of the 155 from being pulled down lower. The position of the clew relative to the whisker pole is a function of the relative wind. The HL35 has a fractional rig with swept back spreaders. As such I need to run down wind with the reative wind at the 160 degree position. I need to tack a few times but the boat does well in this wing and wing configuration. The addion of the barber hauler really made a difference. I also use a "preventer" on the boom as a safety measure. With the preventer the boom vang is not needed. You mentioned tha you use a topping lift. Where is this attched - to the whisker pole ?? Sail on, Bob Dean S/V Sundance
Your efforts to obtain more speed with a 150 and a whisker pole are not unique. I fly a 155 with a whisker pole on my HL35 and do well. I do not change the position of the car as I do not use it when I set the whisker pole. I do use a barber hauler (spelling ??). The HL 35 has a nice slotted rub rail/toe rail to which I attache a block. I set this block about 9" forward of the car when it is set to go to weather. I run a line and hook (ie quick disconnec type) out to the clew of the 155 and then run the tail of this line to the cabin top winch. The object here is to get the clew and bottom of the 155 as low as possible. If I use the car and jib lead I would have to go up and over the life lines, which would prevent the clew of the 155 from being pulled down lower. The position of the clew relative to the whisker pole is a function of the relative wind. The HL35 has a fractional rig with swept back spreaders. As such I need to run down wind with the reative wind at the 160 degree position. I need to tack a few times but the boat does well in this wing and wing configuration. The addion of the barber hauler really made a difference. I also use a "preventer" on the boom as a safety measure. With the preventer the boom vang is not needed. You mentioned tha you use a topping lift. Where is this attched - to the whisker pole ?? Sail on, Bob Dean S/V Sundance
R
Ron Barrow
More thoughts...
Rich: I find that Hunters with shoal keels are pretty fast down wind. We seem to make most of our gains on the "downhill" part of the course (1989 33.5 with 150% and pole). If your club has a non spin class, you should be competitive with your equipment. Bob's ideas are great, here are a couple more thoughts, if these are too basic, no insult intended. I find that when I am having trouble, going back to fundamentals usually helps. 1. You mentioned a topping lift, but did not mention a down haul for the pole. In heavy air when the pole rises, valuable air is spilled from the Genoa. I often use the slack genoa sheet around a bow cleat to keep the pole and the clew at the proper level. (Forgetting to release this makes trimming or jibing the genoa difficult as I found out last weekend.) 2. Concerning the main.. The same principle applies. It is important to keep the boom and the clew of the main low so as to keep as much sail exposed to the wind as possible. If a preventor does not, use the vang. I have forgotten to release a preventor and attempted to jibe the main. It really screws things up for a while. (There is a pattern here, and for this reason, I don't like preventors.) Another concern is that in broaching situations, releasing the vang to spill air from the main is a primary safety valve. If a preventer is used to pull the boom down to its proper level, then you must be able to release it quickly in case you become overpowered. 3. Other Stuff: Check main halyard to make sure it hasn't silpped on upwind leg; release cunningham; ease outhaul to give fuller shape; release backstay tensioner; station someone facing aft to look for puffs; be sensitive to silght changes in wind direction and trim accordingly; work to maintiain clear air and to blanket those downwind; if you don't have a folding/feathering prop, drag may affect speed more in lower apparent wind situations; keeping the rudder still is also important - it is harder to regain momentium in light air situations; etc. It is also harder to maintain focus going downwind because you don't get the same quick feedback that you get when beating to windward: there are no sails luffing, tell tales wavering, etc. But, downwind, trim and strategy are probably more important. Your boat and equipment should be relatively fast so look for little things to improve. Good Luck! Ron
Rich: I find that Hunters with shoal keels are pretty fast down wind. We seem to make most of our gains on the "downhill" part of the course (1989 33.5 with 150% and pole). If your club has a non spin class, you should be competitive with your equipment. Bob's ideas are great, here are a couple more thoughts, if these are too basic, no insult intended. I find that when I am having trouble, going back to fundamentals usually helps. 1. You mentioned a topping lift, but did not mention a down haul for the pole. In heavy air when the pole rises, valuable air is spilled from the Genoa. I often use the slack genoa sheet around a bow cleat to keep the pole and the clew at the proper level. (Forgetting to release this makes trimming or jibing the genoa difficult as I found out last weekend.) 2. Concerning the main.. The same principle applies. It is important to keep the boom and the clew of the main low so as to keep as much sail exposed to the wind as possible. If a preventor does not, use the vang. I have forgotten to release a preventor and attempted to jibe the main. It really screws things up for a while. (There is a pattern here, and for this reason, I don't like preventors.) Another concern is that in broaching situations, releasing the vang to spill air from the main is a primary safety valve. If a preventer is used to pull the boom down to its proper level, then you must be able to release it quickly in case you become overpowered. 3. Other Stuff: Check main halyard to make sure it hasn't silpped on upwind leg; release cunningham; ease outhaul to give fuller shape; release backstay tensioner; station someone facing aft to look for puffs; be sensitive to silght changes in wind direction and trim accordingly; work to maintiain clear air and to blanket those downwind; if you don't have a folding/feathering prop, drag may affect speed more in lower apparent wind situations; keeping the rudder still is also important - it is harder to regain momentium in light air situations; etc. It is also harder to maintain focus going downwind because you don't get the same quick feedback that you get when beating to windward: there are no sails luffing, tell tales wavering, etc. But, downwind, trim and strategy are probably more important. Your boat and equipment should be relatively fast so look for little things to improve. Good Luck! Ron
J
Justin Wolfe/PYI
Use a feathering prop
Pretty simple I know, but if you're dragging a fix blade prop around you're going slower than you need to be, especially in light air.
Pretty simple I know, but if you're dragging a fix blade prop around you're going slower than you need to be, especially in light air.
R
RICH MOORE
Thanks for the help
Great ideas everyone!! I am on my way to the lake this weekend to give them a try. I do have a folding prop which has helped a great deal.I don't want to run in spin fleet, too much competition. Bob, you asked about the topping lift. I do attach this about 2/3's of the way out on the whisker pole. This helps me in light air, which we have a lot of on the lake. I like Ron's suggestions for a down haul and sail trim. I have had problems in higher winds trying to shape UK sails. Thanks again. Rich
Great ideas everyone!! I am on my way to the lake this weekend to give them a try. I do have a folding prop which has helped a great deal.I don't want to run in spin fleet, too much competition. Bob, you asked about the topping lift. I do attach this about 2/3's of the way out on the whisker pole. This helps me in light air, which we have a lot of on the lake. I like Ron's suggestions for a down haul and sail trim. I have had problems in higher winds trying to shape UK sails. Thanks again. Rich
S
Steve Horvath
Outboard Leads
Try pulling out a spare sheet and rig it outside of all the stays, use a snatch block onto out-most point of the boat. It helps on our 336. We dump the outboard lead prior to a hardening-up.
Try pulling out a spare sheet and rig it outside of all the stays, use a snatch block onto out-most point of the boat. It helps on our 336. We dump the outboard lead prior to a hardening-up.
M
Mark - UK sailmakers
Sail trim problems?
Rich, I read the comments about non spinnaker down wind performance. Among other things, ease some of the halyard tension on the main and genoa. Also induce a little heel angle and try not to sail too far dead down wind. If you treat your whisker pole like a spinnaker pole (lift and down haul on the fore deck) with the sheets (never the clew) in the jaws you'll be ok. I am curious about your comments about moving your genoa lead cars fwd., and not be able to trim UK sails. Why, on both counts? Mark.
Rich, I read the comments about non spinnaker down wind performance. Among other things, ease some of the halyard tension on the main and genoa. Also induce a little heel angle and try not to sail too far dead down wind. If you treat your whisker pole like a spinnaker pole (lift and down haul on the fore deck) with the sheets (never the clew) in the jaws you'll be ok. I am curious about your comments about moving your genoa lead cars fwd., and not be able to trim UK sails. Why, on both counts? Mark.
R
RICH MOORE
UK sail trim
Just to confirm my problem with sailtrim. Sails are new and I am still learning how to best use them. No reflection on the product. I have always been told that you run cars forward and loosen the head sail for best performance. If this is not so, please tell me.
Just to confirm my problem with sailtrim. Sails are new and I am still learning how to best use them. No reflection on the product. I have always been told that you run cars forward and loosen the head sail for best performance. If this is not so, please tell me.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.