Fact or myth
- Thread starter T37 Phil
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If We All Believed in Myths...
...none of us would ever leave the dock. Now get your shoes off of the table and go for it!;D
...none of us would ever leave the dock. Now get your shoes off of the table and go for it!;D
Two wrongs
make ... ? I've read that one about not starting a trip on a Friday and wondered what the origin could have been. There is also the one that says it's bad luck to rename a boat. So if I start for home next Friday with my newly renamed boat, I should make sure my insurance is paid up. I've had old cars that simply didn't run well until they warmed up. But newer cars and diesels don't seem to have that problem. How about the saying that a boat is just a hole in the water where you throw money, fact or myth? It seems to me that there is always something that can be done, but how much money is thrown at it can be variable. Yet the perception goes on, particularly among non-boaters, that your wallet bleeds cash when you have a boat.
make ... ? I've read that one about not starting a trip on a Friday and wondered what the origin could have been. There is also the one that says it's bad luck to rename a boat. So if I start for home next Friday with my newly renamed boat, I should make sure my insurance is paid up. I've had old cars that simply didn't run well until they warmed up. But newer cars and diesels don't seem to have that problem. How about the saying that a boat is just a hole in the water where you throw money, fact or myth? It seems to me that there is always something that can be done, but how much money is thrown at it can be variable. Yet the perception goes on, particularly among non-boaters, that your wallet bleeds cash when you have a boat.
Diesel engines require warm up. This will allow
the oil to thin down to its working temperature for adequate flow and the metal parts to expand to operating temperature range. Cool down after running is also required to allow metal parts to gradually return to to its low operating temperature before shutdown.. I remember when automobiles required warm up of engine and transmission to be safely brought up to speed. Another must was to allow the brakes to cool down before setting the parking brake after a high speed run or descent from a mountain pass.
the oil to thin down to its working temperature for adequate flow and the metal parts to expand to operating temperature range. Cool down after running is also required to allow metal parts to gradually return to to its low operating temperature before shutdown.. I remember when automobiles required warm up of engine and transmission to be safely brought up to speed. Another must was to allow the brakes to cool down before setting the parking brake after a high speed run or descent from a mountain pass.
cool down
Hello, Perhaps someone can elaborate on the 'cool down' I am supposed to give me engine. My typical use is to start the engine, take the sail cover off, connect electronics, etc., then leave. This means my engine has run for a minute or two, then I motor out of the harbor (at a low RPM because there is a 5 kt speed limit). When I'm out of the harbor I may open up the throttle, or just turn the engine off. At the end of the sail, I will start the engine, drop the sails, and motor into the harbor (at a good cruising RPM). When I approach the mooring, dock, slip, I throttle down to idle, then coast, tie up, then turn the engine off. So the engine has been running at a low RPM for a minute or two. That's got to be enough of a cool down right? Does anyone run their engine at max or cruising RPM, and then just shut it down? Don't you just about HAVE to idle or run slowly for a little bit before shut down? BTW, my engine never runs above 180. If I run at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) it will make lots of black smoke, but still doesn't run hotter. At 200 RPM or so below WOT the smoke goes away. Barry
Hello, Perhaps someone can elaborate on the 'cool down' I am supposed to give me engine. My typical use is to start the engine, take the sail cover off, connect electronics, etc., then leave. This means my engine has run for a minute or two, then I motor out of the harbor (at a low RPM because there is a 5 kt speed limit). When I'm out of the harbor I may open up the throttle, or just turn the engine off. At the end of the sail, I will start the engine, drop the sails, and motor into the harbor (at a good cruising RPM). When I approach the mooring, dock, slip, I throttle down to idle, then coast, tie up, then turn the engine off. So the engine has been running at a low RPM for a minute or two. That's got to be enough of a cool down right? Does anyone run their engine at max or cruising RPM, and then just shut it down? Don't you just about HAVE to idle or run slowly for a little bit before shut down? BTW, my engine never runs above 180. If I run at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) it will make lots of black smoke, but still doesn't run hotter. At 200 RPM or so below WOT the smoke goes away. Barry
Bladder on the vent
Since I only use about 1/2 tank of diesel a year, I put an inner tube on my vent line when I lay the boat up for winter. This prevents moisture from entering the tank. I don't like the idea of keeping old diesel.
Since I only use about 1/2 tank of diesel a year, I put an inner tube on my vent line when I lay the boat up for winter. This prevents moisture from entering the tank. I don't like the idea of keeping old diesel.
Barry, I think what you are describing ...
is that your engine rarely gets to run very much at all. It sounds like you run the engine just enough to get out of the harbor and raise your sails and vice versa. If you are typically out on the boat just for good sailing days, this may be your pattern. It sounds like you should be able to get more RPM's without getting the black smoke. I also wonder about the max RPM's we should get while underway. We have a Yanmar 1GM (a small 1 cylinder about 10HP). WOT in neutral will push up to about 3200 RPM. WOT while under way is 2600 RPM. If I'm running around 2200 RPM and going just over about 5 knots, then pick up the pace to WOT, we'll get black smoke while the boat is working hard to pick up speed until it reaches hull speed which it just barely does about at WOT. The black smoke will dissipate at WOT once the boat has reached it's maximum speed. One of two things could be happening if you are consistently getting black smoke at WOT (I think but I'm no expert *o) ... you have reached hull speed before WOT and WOT is causing inefficient burning or your bottom is fouled with growth. I found out about that last summer when I went out in the lake and dived on my bottom to clean it. We were able to motor in about a knot faster than we motored out and the black smoke dissipated after it had been a problem even at lower RPM. It didn't take much slime to make a big difference! I spend some time motoring on our lake at RPM from 2200 to 2400 (a good cruising level) at times just to use some fuel so it doesn't get stale (we use a tiny amount during a season), to give the engine a decent workout, and try to top off the batteries since we are on a mooring and don't otherwise charge them. We have to make time to do this because frequently when we go out to sail, we barely have the engine on for more than a few minutes at all and at low RPM to boot. I don't think there is any need for a cool down period after pushing your boat at cruising speed for a long period.
is that your engine rarely gets to run very much at all. It sounds like you run the engine just enough to get out of the harbor and raise your sails and vice versa. If you are typically out on the boat just for good sailing days, this may be your pattern. It sounds like you should be able to get more RPM's without getting the black smoke. I also wonder about the max RPM's we should get while underway. We have a Yanmar 1GM (a small 1 cylinder about 10HP). WOT in neutral will push up to about 3200 RPM. WOT while under way is 2600 RPM. If I'm running around 2200 RPM and going just over about 5 knots, then pick up the pace to WOT, we'll get black smoke while the boat is working hard to pick up speed until it reaches hull speed which it just barely does about at WOT. The black smoke will dissipate at WOT once the boat has reached it's maximum speed. One of two things could be happening if you are consistently getting black smoke at WOT (I think but I'm no expert *o) ... you have reached hull speed before WOT and WOT is causing inefficient burning or your bottom is fouled with growth. I found out about that last summer when I went out in the lake and dived on my bottom to clean it. We were able to motor in about a knot faster than we motored out and the black smoke dissipated after it had been a problem even at lower RPM. It didn't take much slime to make a big difference! I spend some time motoring on our lake at RPM from 2200 to 2400 (a good cruising level) at times just to use some fuel so it doesn't get stale (we use a tiny amount during a season), to give the engine a decent workout, and try to top off the batteries since we are on a mooring and don't otherwise charge them. We have to make time to do this because frequently when we go out to sail, we barely have the engine on for more than a few minutes at all and at low RPM to boot. I don't think there is any need for a cool down period after pushing your boat at cruising speed for a long period.
Excessive Heat and Cool-Down
I am not a mechanic here but I always thought the warm-up and cool-down period (aside from oil circ on a warm-up) had to do with excessive heat or cold potentially damaging the block, head or seals (ie. warping something). Again, I am not a mechanic and its my 2 cents to the myth. Rob
I am not a mechanic here but I always thought the warm-up and cool-down period (aside from oil circ on a warm-up) had to do with excessive heat or cold potentially damaging the block, head or seals (ie. warping something). Again, I am not a mechanic and its my 2 cents to the myth. Rob
Fact or Myth this thread is about Diesel engines warming up?
Assuming it is about "facts and myths"... here is one I have often wondereed about. Is it good practice to fold your sails at the end of the day. Do you fold your jib or gemoa before putting it away? I suspect there is a strong corelation between people who fold and those who tuck there shirts in. And for those tuckers with furlers, do you find it important to flake your sails the same way, using the same folds each time? I have seen some suggestions that ironing creases in your main will aid in achieving this level of perfection. Does folding maintain crispness in the sail or does it create weak spots by repeatedly creasing the sail in the sme spot. Frank BTW IF I am wrong about the intent of this thread, sorry Phil, carry on about the Diesels.
Assuming it is about "facts and myths"... here is one I have often wondereed about. Is it good practice to fold your sails at the end of the day. Do you fold your jib or gemoa before putting it away? I suspect there is a strong corelation between people who fold and those who tuck there shirts in. And for those tuckers with furlers, do you find it important to flake your sails the same way, using the same folds each time? I have seen some suggestions that ironing creases in your main will aid in achieving this level of perfection. Does folding maintain crispness in the sail or does it create weak spots by repeatedly creasing the sail in the sme spot. Frank BTW IF I am wrong about the intent of this thread, sorry Phil, carry on about the Diesels.
Yanmar does recommend
That you idle down for a minute or two, IF you have been running it hard. When you shut it down instantly, it stops circulating water, and the temp will spike up a little. There does seem to be some differences of opinion on the warm up time, and cool down time. From my perspective if you start the engine up, and get untied from the dock, mooring, or whatever, this couple of minutes is enough time for warm up. You mainly just need to get the oil circulating good. Same goes for cool down. Let the engine idle long enough to get tied up, should be sufficient. I also run mine at least every couple of weeks. I run it in gear with enough power on to get it up to operating temps. And last but not least, since lots of my day sailing involves a very short run out to the lake, I do make it a point to run her hard for a few minutes from time to time. Excessive slow speed running, with out ever opening the throttle, will lead to a coked up exhaust. These are my personal opinions, and are worth no more than anyone elses.
That you idle down for a minute or two, IF you have been running it hard. When you shut it down instantly, it stops circulating water, and the temp will spike up a little. There does seem to be some differences of opinion on the warm up time, and cool down time. From my perspective if you start the engine up, and get untied from the dock, mooring, or whatever, this couple of minutes is enough time for warm up. You mainly just need to get the oil circulating good. Same goes for cool down. Let the engine idle long enough to get tied up, should be sufficient. I also run mine at least every couple of weeks. I run it in gear with enough power on to get it up to operating temps. And last but not least, since lots of my day sailing involves a very short run out to the lake, I do make it a point to run her hard for a few minutes from time to time. Excessive slow speed running, with out ever opening the throttle, will lead to a coked up exhaust. These are my personal opinions, and are worth no more than anyone elses.
Naming a boat
I turn on, drop the lines, and put-put out to the main channel where I go to somewhat less than full throttle. I also let the engine idle till I get the dock lines on. I cover the vent on the fuel tank in winter with masking tape to keep moisture out. The gods of nautical things have smiled on me so far. Or it could be that the good Lord is looking out for dummies and I'm the chief of them. What is the deal with renaming a boat? Talk about pagan rituals! I have not done this during two re-namings of boats and have never had "lots of bad luck." Is having a virgin pee on my boat really appeasing to anybody? Not to mention embarrassing to the virgin. I suppose it could be a male virgin but I didn't get the impression that that was what old Poseidon was looking for.
I turn on, drop the lines, and put-put out to the main channel where I go to somewhat less than full throttle. I also let the engine idle till I get the dock lines on. I cover the vent on the fuel tank in winter with masking tape to keep moisture out. The gods of nautical things have smiled on me so far. Or it could be that the good Lord is looking out for dummies and I'm the chief of them. What is the deal with renaming a boat? Talk about pagan rituals! I have not done this during two re-namings of boats and have never had "lots of bad luck." Is having a virgin pee on my boat really appeasing to anybody? Not to mention embarrassing to the virgin. I suppose it could be a male virgin but I didn't get the impression that that was what old Poseidon was looking for.
Boat renaming rituals
Lots of myth and fiction in this one. Basically I think that the renaming celebration/ritual, is just an excuse to have a party. And of course for those who are not socially challenged, there is also an un naming ceremony, before the re naming ceremony, which calls for another party. Also allows the person doing the re naming to show off their new to them boats. Having a virgin pee on the boat is probably an impossiblity, as any female, or male, who would be a virgin, is young enough that it would be illegal for such goings on.
Lots of myth and fiction in this one. Basically I think that the renaming celebration/ritual, is just an excuse to have a party. And of course for those who are not socially challenged, there is also an un naming ceremony, before the re naming ceremony, which calls for another party. Also allows the person doing the re naming to show off their new to them boats. Having a virgin pee on the boat is probably an impossiblity, as any female, or male, who would be a virgin, is young enough that it would be illegal for such goings on.
Engine winter layup
While we are on the Diesel rant here is another one. When I 1st bought the boat I went down every 2 weeks throughout the winter and ran the engine to get it up to temp putting it under load at the dock. This year I changed the oil and basically let it sit for 4 months without even turning it over. Prior to starting I released the compression levers and turned it over to pump oil throughout, then started. Sooooo the question is does it hurt to leave it for 4 months or more or should it be started and run. By the way it is a 15 year old engine with a partial rebuild at 1400 hours and it started 1st crank after 4 months.
While we are on the Diesel rant here is another one. When I 1st bought the boat I went down every 2 weeks throughout the winter and ran the engine to get it up to temp putting it under load at the dock. This year I changed the oil and basically let it sit for 4 months without even turning it over. Prior to starting I released the compression levers and turned it over to pump oil throughout, then started. Sooooo the question is does it hurt to leave it for 4 months or more or should it be started and run. By the way it is a 15 year old engine with a partial rebuild at 1400 hours and it started 1st crank after 4 months.
The right thing
Don, I don't think that it hurts anything to let one set up for a few months. I do think it necessary, or at least advisable, to do as you did, and open the compression release and let it spin over to get the oil circulating and up to all the moving parts. I crank mine every few days, mostly because it it sits for two weeks or more, it will not crank without bleeding the fuel system. I have been fighting this problem for a while now, and have done everything I can think of, and everything those on this board have suggested, all to no avail.
Don, I don't think that it hurts anything to let one set up for a few months. I do think it necessary, or at least advisable, to do as you did, and open the compression release and let it spin over to get the oil circulating and up to all the moving parts. I crank mine every few days, mostly because it it sits for two weeks or more, it will not crank without bleeding the fuel system. I have been fighting this problem for a while now, and have done everything I can think of, and everything those on this board have suggested, all to no avail.
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