Exposed lead keel

Ziggler

Ziggler

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Jan 15, 2014
80
Morgan 323 Portland
Installed new bilge pump. In doing so, drilled/carved out a wider, flatter space in the shoal keel bilge area (trying, in part, to make more of a sump). This removed some fiberglass and exposed a small section of the lead keel. QUESTION: Is this of concern? Does it need to be glassed over or is 4 inches of lead keel exposure (to bilge water, yuck, etc.) OK? Thanks, mates.
 
rgranger

rgranger

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Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I'm guessing but I suspect that if it were safe to leave it exposed, we wouldn't barrier coat the keels and paint them.

At the least I'd put a few coats of epoxy barrier coat over it followed by several coats of a hard enamel.
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
12,757
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The bilge sump is the highest stressed area on the boat. Removing fiberglass from that area will significantly weaken a critical part of the boat. The area needs to be cleaned up and new fiberglass needs to be laid up in sufficient thickness to return the sump to its original or better strength.

Keeping the keel attached to the boat is important.
 
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jssailem

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
22,832
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Ziggler, Generally not good to invite water into your boats keel. They cover the lead to keep water from seeping down along and between the lead and the fiberglass. You want to seal that area completely. Now that you have your "gouged out sump". I would cover the area with epoxy and well soaked fiberglass to seal the area completely. Then I would give it a layer of gel coat and or paint to fill in all the air bubbles and cracks that exist in your fiberglass work.

Pictures are always helpful to understand the project you are enjoying.
 
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Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,556
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
I presume the the Morgan has an encapsulated keel, and not one hung from keel bolts in the sump? If it is bolted on then I’m with Dlochner - repair it properly quickly so the keel hull joint has integrity. If it’s encapsulated and the sump just separates the lead from the bilge then I’m slightly less concerned. Lead won’t rust like iron so the metal itself is ok. But having a gap there for water to seep in is still bad. That water will eventually work into the space between the lead and the fiberglass, potentially causing other badness. In that case I’d cover the area with thickened epoxy being sure to seal any joint between the lead and existing glass.
 
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Ziggler

Ziggler

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Jan 15, 2014
80
Morgan 323 Portland
You've put the fear of future catastrophe and impending sailboat doom in my heart - a good thing in this case. Thank you for the feedback and for not letting me get away with it.

With my new terror established, what about other spots where I drilled an inch or so into the keel (2 float switches, second back-up bilge pump)? If you tell me to over drill those holes and fill them with fiberglass I will curse your names as I fit oversized tools into nearly inaccessible areas for hours of bent over pain and suffering.

Backing up... was I not supposed to install with screws? Were these supposed to be glassed in place?

P.S. If it helps mitigate the extent of the calamity, this is an encased (not bolted) 4' shoal keel on a 1984 Morgan 323. No bolts to rust, keel won't fall off, and seemingly, no space for intrusion between fiberglass and lead.
 
D

dlochner

.
Jan 11, 2014
12,757
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
You are in less trouble with an encapsulated keel.

I would seal the hole with a few layers of fiberglass with a substantial overlap. This will make a better seal against water intrusion and add some structural strength.

While the factory says the keel is lead, it may be lead and other stuff. If water gets in there and there is any steel or iron, it will rust and expand against the fiberglass. If the boat is hauled and left to freeze with water in the keel, the fiberglass will crack.

Make sure all the screw holes are well bedded, treat them like you would screws on a cored deck, lots of sealant.
 
C

Crazy Dave Condon

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Jun 8, 2004
10,381
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Years ago, I heard Frank Butler, Catalina Yachts, and Charlie Morgan talking about keels as Catalina yachts eventually purchased Morgan Yachts and today Catalina Yachts are built at the old Morgan plant in Florida..
What year is your boat and what makes you think it is a lead keel vs. cast iron keel?
 
D

dlochner

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Jan 11, 2014
12,757
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
rgranger said:
This thread has generated some real pearls of wisdom...

;):beer:
Click to expand
I appreciate credit for the quote, however it was @jssailem who actually wrote "Generally not good to invite water into your boats keel."
I could say John just repeated the words I sent him in PM, but then, I might be accused of prevaricating.
 
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Ziggler

Ziggler

.
Jan 15, 2014
80
Morgan 323 Portland
Well, I am assuming lead, but maybe it is
Crazy Dave Condon said:
Years ago, I heard Frank Butler, Catalina Yachts, and Charlie Morgan talking about keels as Catalina yachts eventually purchased Morgan Yachts and today Catalina Yachts are built at the old Morgan plant in Florida..
What year is your boat and what makes you think it is a lead keel vs. cast iron keel?
Click to expand
An assumption on my part that it is lead. How might I be able to tell the difference?
 
D

dlochner

.
Jan 11, 2014
12,757
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Ziggler said:
An assumption on my part that it is lead. How might I be able to tell the difference?
Click to expand
Lead will be a dull gray, if struck with a hammer it will sound dull, iron will ring, a nail or awl will indent the lead but not iron.
 
Ziggler

Ziggler

.
Jan 15, 2014
80
Morgan 323 Portland
Re-Posting this question: Are we not supposed to install bilge pumps/float switch with screws into the keel? Are they supposed to be glassed in place?
 
D

dlochner

.
Jan 11, 2014
12,757
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The bilge pumps on my boat have a fitting into which the pump snaps. That fitting is glued to the fiberglass with some adhesive like 4200 or something similar. (I hope not 5200).
 
Tally Ho

Tally Ho

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Jan 7, 2011
5,468
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Ziggler said:
Re-Posting this question: Are we not supposed to install bilge pumps/float switch with screws into the keel? Are they supposed to be glassed in place?
Click to expand
A VERY short screw could be used to hold the bilge pump but I wouldn’t use 1” screws.
I have a bolted on keel, so YMMV.

Greg
 
rgranger

rgranger

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Jan 19, 2010
12,553
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
... or maybe epoxy coat a thin piece of plywood and 4200 it to the sole of the sump... then tap a screw into that
 
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PaulK

PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,354
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
We leave our bilge pump loose in the bottom of the bilge. That way we can lift it out to clear anything that might clog it. Lifting it out also keeps it from getting frozen and cracking in the winter, when rainwater comes down he mast and freezes before we get to bail it out.
 
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