Experience

ITMaster · Dec 27, 2008

There but for the grace of God (go I)

Some of us are just damned lucky. Most of us have a lot of sense, but there are those of us that just go for it and really don't know of reprecussions, or could even care about them if we are aware of them. Perhaps this may be one of those times.

For me, I do care about tomorrow and living to see it arrive and I guess some of us just live for the today without fear of consequences, even if they come at the cost of life.

I personally don't want to lose what it is that I have worked for and I have a desire to grow to the age where I can reflect on what I have done and enjoy the rewards of the fruits of my efforts.

This isn't to say that I don't enjoy being on or won't walk on the fault line, but the more I know, the more I realize that I can be cautious or reckless. At this point in time, I prefer the former of the two.

BTW Franklin, weren't you puckered up a little bit during Ike while riding it out?

I think you and I are a little more sensible than she is, or at least would take a drouge with us to cross the Big Blue!

Hermit Scott · Dec 27, 2008

That lady had a brass pair to head below deck and crochet it those conditions. Are you going to take your trip Franklin or is the weather too bad for it? The trend lately, I hear, is not to worry about the weather and go whenever it's the most convienent to you.

higgs · Dec 28, 2008

I am left wondering what she did for 35,000 miles if she did not know how to get a boat to sail to winward, or how to heave to, or to know the importance of a drogue. It is hard to believe one could spend that much time aboard a boat and learn so little.

Bill Roosa · Dec 28, 2008

Things to consider

Sailing around the world comes in two flavors, all down wind and all beating. That is why they call them trade winds. They always blow in the same direction. That is also why those old sailing ships where set up to sail down wind.
Weather is only bad (statistically speaking) about 5% of the time. A lot of sailors will never see bad weather. You can probably reduce that further if you had a weather fax and knew how to read the reports or used weather routing.

It is not really amazing to me that she made it. It still took courage to start however.

sailingdog · Dec 28, 2008

BR's point about downwind sailing is very valid. There are a lot of ways to go around the world and avoid going upwind for a majority of the time doing so.

While I commend Pat Henry on her accomplishments, I would say that she and several other single-handed sailors are probably not the best role models out there. For instance, look at Tania Aebi—who sailed around the world in a boat without a working engine for the most part and didn't know celestial navigation for a good portion of her journey—relying on passing ships to get a rough fix on her position.

In both Pat and Tania's cases, I'd say that their choice of boat had a lot to do with their success. Both the Southern Cross 31 and Contessa 26 are designs that will take a lot of abuse and handle conditions that less capable boats would have failed in. If Pat Henry had tried doing what she did—going below and letting the boat deal with things—in a lot of other boats, she would have probably been killed or badly injured.

On the other extreme are sailors like Webb Chiles. He went most of the way around the world in an open 18' Drascombe Lugger. Leaving the boat to take care of itself is not an option when it is a 18' open boat, and you're dealing with some of the conditions he saw.

Most of us are somewhere in between these two extremes, with boats that are somewhere in between those used as well.

Unfortunately, as of recent, a lot of sailors have done what I would consider very stupid things. As examples—Ronnie Simpson, leaving in a nearly 50 year old boat, without having the common sense to have it properly surveyed or inspected—and timing his departure into the Northern Pacific on making the evening news... the four sailors on s/v Moonshine, who left on a Friday into the teeth of a well-forecasted New England storm...

Without the EPIRB and the USCG, these five would be Darwin Award winners. Luck may have some part to play, but preparation also plays a pretty significant role too. While it takes courage to leave, it takes luck, preparation and skill to succeed. I'm pretty sure that all of us want to leave, but also want to make it to where we're going safely.

Ross · Dec 28, 2008

I suggest that a person could setout in a sailboat with a good
how-to book and no knowledge of sailing and learn to sail. But there is soooo much more to crossing an ocean than simply knowing how to sail. The early explorers didn't find Australia for nearly a century while sailing around the southern ocean. Knowing where a place is and knowing how to navigate keeps you from becoming another "Went missing" in the history books. Maintaining your health is also a wise thing to do and as Franklin said being able to keep your boat healthy helps to keep you alive.
Donna Lange broke most of the rules but also was as tough and persistant as people are made.
If you have grown up and always lived in a warm, dry climate and never driven at night in a snow storm in an old car you are not an experienced driver. Experience is gained by the application of knowledge derived from many sources. I have read many books about heavy weather sailing. I am able to keep my head , so I believe that should I get into situations where applying my book knowledge to my need is a must, I will be able to make it work . Besides that I have tried most of the techniques in calmer conditions. But I don't have experience in weathering a storm.

Rick D · Dec 28, 2008

Maybe Not So Innocent

I met her once and had a conversation. At the time, I didn't know what she was doing, other than she was doing it alone. She seemed to knowledgeable and the boat well prepared. I didn't go through any cruiser's check list with her nor was my discussion in depth. Just an impression. Maybe there is some induced drama in the book.

Bob Poff · Dec 28, 2008

The Human Factor

Experience teaches you knoweldge, skills, needs, and "tricks".
All very valuable commondities indeed.

But... it can't teach other things, such as common sense, feel, or ingenuity.
OK.. some may may be absorbed...
But when it gets bad, you still come back to the basic make up of the person.

Just as there are people I know that have driven cars for years, that I wouldn't ride with.
There are pilots I won't ride with.
And there are probably long time sailors that I wouldn't care to go across a lake with.
But they seem to muddle through. And some how survive.

And conversely the fairly new sailor that has an inate feel for the boat.

Some people seem to just do dumb stuff no matter what.
As Franklin said origianlly, it's not something that you can quantify.

benet250 · Dec 29, 2008

A little imagination perhaps

I also find it very hard to believe that a person with '35,000 miles experience' could set off knowing so little, the numbers just don't add up. the averege daysail is about 12 miles so if she went daysailing she went out a little shy of 3,000 times. or every day for 8 and a half years, if she went out on weekemd trips and did approximately 150 miles a weekend she went out every weekend for 250 weekends or every weekend for four years and if she went cruising she was out for at least a total of 212 days or eight months at an average of 165 miles a day. I find it a little difficult to believe that someone could be foolhardy enough to put to sea so totally unprepared.

Ctskip · Dec 29, 2008

Re: A little imagination perhaps

I believe Bob Poff said it best so far. Being in a storm aboard a sailboat in a storm (the miles thing comes in here)and experiencing how to handle a sailboat in a storm are two different things. Just like going to a psychologist can teach one something, but only if one applies what they were learned. The ability to learn what is being taught is the key. One must be able to comprehend and later apply what the lesson is about. Just being there and is not what I consider experience. Only by applying what one learns from past experiences does one become experienced. One can't become experienced by reading about it in a book. I believe Ross stated that point best. Experience is a correctly applied learned response to a given situation.
Just my two cents on the subject.

Keep it up,
Ctskip

Ross · Dec 29, 2008

In the simplest of tasks I can tell you step by step how to do it. But if you haven't assembled the tools and material and applied what you heard you don't "KNOW" how to do. For example: a simple batch of biscuits. 2 cups of flour, 1 tablespoon of baking powder, 1/2 teaspoon salt, 1/3 cup of cold fat(lard, crisco, or poultry ) rubbed into the flour mix. Add 2/3-3/4 cup of milk, mix until it comes together in a ball, spread a little flour on the table and press the ball of dough flat (about 3/4 inch thick ) fold in half and press again shape the dough into a neat edge and fold one more time and press flat cut into rounds and place close together on an oven safe pan and bake at 400 degrees for about 20 minutes .
I can start from a clean kitchen and have biscuits in the oven in five minutes, and have the mess cleaned up before they are done. Now you have knowledge but if you haven't done this you have no experience. However I do recommend that you try this and have a little butter and a jar of jelly ready when they come out.

barker bill · Dec 29, 2008

This discussion has drifted off to a particular person decision to do something which most of the posts agree were not a very wise decision. This doesn't apply to sailors as there seems to be at least one news worthy event a day which begs the question " What were they thinking."
Experience are the events which you acquire over time which help us make decisions and take action. But we have all seen some one who has vast experience make some very bad decisions. this is however not to say the a person with limited "experience cannot make a brilliant decision and come out of a very demanding situation. To me the "experience" of a person is not measured in miles,hours or envieoment but how well they use their experience to make consistent and reasonable choices.

Captain Rob · Dec 29, 2008

Experience is anytime your on the water. It can be broken down into good and bad experience. Good experience is enhanced by education, training, practice, sharing of knowledge with other experienced sailors, preparation, and prudence. Bad experience is usually because you lacked the items listed under good experience. Bad experience is made bad by luck. For without luck it is your last experience and it ends there.

avnbuf · Dec 29, 2008

Well said, I have been an aviation instructor for many years and have a simple category for new students to occupy.

You can gain knowledge two ways; Study or Mistakes

If you have some mechanical background, or training you can apply it to new situations. Much lke pilots have information to apply to boating. "Port is the RED light" for example.

Being too cocky about your experience and ignoring the STUDY will get you to the MISTAKES and on survival it may deliver some knowledge. More ofter, it causes you to go back to STUDY. Either way, it will be considered mistakes.

Time without a test, or many years of sailing the same route will not provide many new learning experiences. It my lead you to false security, or feeling of superior intelligence. That is generally taken care of by the elements, equipment and exposure which will cause you to reconsider the STUDY.

No one should consider themselves above the test that will come when on the water, being sober, fit and trained will give you a good starting place but you must be ready to be tested before the lesson.

Finally --- As in the boaters test (which is optional) --- Pilots are tested and licensed after only a few month of training and are then permitted to LEARN by doing. The exam given pilots is multiple choice, the TEST GIVEN BY MOTHER NATURE is ESSAY.

Franklin said:
This is a thread I guess for me to spur a debate or just vent

I've always said that you can't messure experience by number of years or miles under the keel and don't really think it's messurable at all in a statistical way. Let's take Pat Henry - I'm reading her book now - who started her solo journey to sail around the world in 1989. I gotta hand it to her, especially knowing how difficult single-handed sailing is myself in the open waters, it takes a lot of guts and courage to do what she did. Now she had 35,000 miles under her before she started on that trip and yet, after crossing the South Pasific Ocean, she still didn't know anything about telltails or how to beat into the wind and waves. She could only get 18 miles a day beating into 16-24 knots winds with a mild current and 12' seas. That's just down right lousy and she knew it so she then decided to open her sailing books and read up on sail trim which then she could finally get about 4 knots out of it.

On top of that, she leaves port to cross the biggest ocean in the world without a proper drogue or sea-anchor. That's a necessity as a single-handler as much as having sails. So when she got into a gale of 45 knot winds with 25+ following seas, she went down below and let the wind vang sail the boat while she listened to the hull crashing into trouphs. Ummmm....crashing into trouphs is a no-no...this is when you steer or you deploy a device if you need rest.

There were also times were she should have heave-to but she didn't. In fact, she hasn't mention that at all yet so I am not sure she even knew how.

Now lets say we chalked up not knowing sail trim and not knowing heavy sea sail techneques as poor teaching...but then to think she left with only $300 and some dollars to her name with a 31' boat? If she had actually been on a boat for 35,000 miles, she should have learned herself that things break at sea and it cost a lot of money to fix them once you make it in port. In some cases, boats have need to be rebuilt several times before making it around the world. And she was thinking she was going to do that by saleing art work? And she wasn't even an Artist?

Now I'm only at the point where she is in New Zealand in the book but come on. It's obvious to me that she only got that far because all the other cruisers felt sorry for her. She basically lived off free-bies from other sailors.

So that's my complaint about people who claim that have "experience" messured by miles or years because it's obvious it takes more then that.

I'm reading the book because she actually made it around the world alone so she must have done something right, or she is correct when she says she had a protective angle at the helm most of the time. I guess it really is better to have luck then skill.

grant@headifen.com · Dec 29, 2008

RE: Experience plus huevos

Well I think that we'd all have to agree the Captain Cook might be the greatest mariner of all time. I've read the book about his 2nd trip around the world called Resolution. That man had brass huevos and a LOT of experience - wow. The book is excellently written and is an account of all the diary entries from the crew including Cook. It also intertwines nicely with the book Longitude - as Cook tested out the watch method of finding longitude.

There you have it two great books to read about maritime huevos vs experience.

Grant Headifen
http://www.nauticed.org

Maine Sail · Dec 29, 2008

Experience does not always come with "doing" and one must always push themselves and challenge themselves to rise above mediocrity to become experienced.

There are horrible doctors out there just as there are terrible sailors. The great Doctors continue to push the envelope and continue to learn even after residency is over and the bad ones move to a town with no teaching hospital where they won't likely ever be challenged to become cutting edge or keep up with the current trends in medicine.. Sailors tend to do similar things. Protected bays, light winds and daylight only sailing prevent many from ever learning other skills or challenging themselves. I know quite a few up here who have never even left the protected waters of Casco Bay and who think sailing to Boothbay is like crossing an ocean..

You can drive a car your entire life and still be a crappy driver same for sailing.. Pushing the envelope and your own comfort level is what will begin to build a level of experience..

With all that being said if one only ever plans on sailing in protected bays or lakes then their experience is probably commensurate with what they need to know.. On the other hand their are places where even protected bays can become dangerous, and pea soup fog ridden, so a relatively inexperienced Maine sailor might still be more experienced than an inexperienced sailor on the ICW in Florida.

While time does give you expereince, to a point, you must take the ques and go with it to actually learn. When your boat breaks down don't just reach for the VHF to call Sea-Tow FIX IT YOUR SELF!!!!!

Ctskip · Dec 29, 2008

Maine,
Your repy left me pausing. I was expecting more experience. Now we are into a "level" of experience. Just like NASCAR drivers have much experience at going in circles at great speeds and have little to no experience driving in a straight line and going fast from a deadstop leaves them without much experience. Just as staying in a protected bay might give one all the experience one needs to travel in a particulair bay. It leaves them without much experience when out in the open waters. I feel that, experience is a correctly applied, learned response, to a given situation.
Just like driving on snow and ice. Texans are terrible on it, because they don't get the time to learn with it.
I sold my barbershop to a girl that has lots of experience at cutting hair and she still sucks at it.

Keep it up,
Ctskip

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