I am considering installing a Dutchman A system on my Hunter 340. Does anyone have experience with installing and using a Dutchman with the big roach mains on 340's. etc?? Regards, Johnnie Engesser s/v Grace
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
Don Alexander
Dutchman - No Thanks
I took mine off my 376 and made an integrated lazy jack/sail cover. The Dutchman had very large folds of sail which droop either side of the boom and obscure the forward view. They press on the mainsheet blocks which have transferred black marks to the sail. The folds are always in the same place and now have long black marks the whole width of the sail. Dirty rain trickles down the monofilament lines and blackens the sail. None of the above are removable and my sail was a mess after only two seasons. The sailcoat was a pain to put on every evening when cruising on holiday. Apart from that the Dutchman was fine!!!
I took mine off my 376 and made an integrated lazy jack/sail cover. The Dutchman had very large folds of sail which droop either side of the boom and obscure the forward view. They press on the mainsheet blocks which have transferred black marks to the sail. The folds are always in the same place and now have long black marks the whole width of the sail. Dirty rain trickles down the monofilament lines and blackens the sail. None of the above are removable and my sail was a mess after only two seasons. The sailcoat was a pain to put on every evening when cruising on holiday. Apart from that the Dutchman was fine!!!
P
Pete
not wild about the dutchman
not happy with mine on hunter 336,once the batton falls off the boom there is no stoping it and it takes all the rest with it. I'm still working on a idea of using a set of lazy jacks and the dutchman system together. Most be a better way!
not happy with mine on hunter 336,once the batton falls off the boom there is no stoping it and it takes all the rest with it. I'm still working on a idea of using a set of lazy jacks and the dutchman system together. Most be a better way!
R
Rich Stidger
I like it
Johnnie, I have the system (I think it is a "B") on my 40.5. I think it works very well in managing the sail. If a batten falls off the boom, I would think that the control lines are too loose. I don't have that problem. I've had lazy jacks on another boat and I think these work just as well. Don mentioned the dirt and covered all of the disadvantages of the Dutchman, and I must agree with him. However, the Dutchman does flake the sail quite well every time. I usually need to straighten out only a couple of flakes. One problem that wasn't mentioned is that there are plastic disks that snap together on both sides of the sail that the control lines pass thru. These disks come loose and are a pain to re-assemble, and even then they don't stay together. This winter I am either going to find a permanent method of attachment or take Dutchman's solution of having my sailmaker install reefing-type grommets for the line to pass thru. Either way, it's another fault in the system. My luff of mainsail is quite tall - about 52'. I'm not sure lazy jacks would work as well to hold all of that sail on top of the boom. The folds of the Dutchman are large, but in my case there really is a lot of sail to handle. Rich
Johnnie, I have the system (I think it is a "B") on my 40.5. I think it works very well in managing the sail. If a batten falls off the boom, I would think that the control lines are too loose. I don't have that problem. I've had lazy jacks on another boat and I think these work just as well. Don mentioned the dirt and covered all of the disadvantages of the Dutchman, and I must agree with him. However, the Dutchman does flake the sail quite well every time. I usually need to straighten out only a couple of flakes. One problem that wasn't mentioned is that there are plastic disks that snap together on both sides of the sail that the control lines pass thru. These disks come loose and are a pain to re-assemble, and even then they don't stay together. This winter I am either going to find a permanent method of attachment or take Dutchman's solution of having my sailmaker install reefing-type grommets for the line to pass thru. Either way, it's another fault in the system. My luff of mainsail is quite tall - about 52'. I'm not sure lazy jacks would work as well to hold all of that sail on top of the boom. The folds of the Dutchman are large, but in my case there really is a lot of sail to handle. Rich
D
Dick McKee
I like it too..
We have the Ducthman system on our 430 and like Rich have not the the bad experiences in the other responses. It handles the fairly large main the the 430 quite well, but must be adjusted correctly ect. My wife and I sail the 430 alone and I can't imagine dropping the main without the Dutchman. There is a problem with rain running down the guide wires, but its easily solved. We took 3 small funnels, and filled the tube portion with silicone. When the silacone was dry I slit the tube 1/2 way through the silicone. After the sail cover is on I slip the funnel over the guide line, and slide it down against the sail cover. The funnel then directs the rain water away from the holes in the cover for the guide wires resluting in a dry sail.. We even used blue funnels to match the cover...Hope this helps... Dick McKee S/V Constellation
We have the Ducthman system on our 430 and like Rich have not the the bad experiences in the other responses. It handles the fairly large main the the 430 quite well, but must be adjusted correctly ect. My wife and I sail the 430 alone and I can't imagine dropping the main without the Dutchman. There is a problem with rain running down the guide wires, but its easily solved. We took 3 small funnels, and filled the tube portion with silicone. When the silacone was dry I slit the tube 1/2 way through the silicone. After the sail cover is on I slip the funnel over the guide line, and slide it down against the sail cover. The funnel then directs the rain water away from the holes in the cover for the guide wires resluting in a dry sail.. We even used blue funnels to match the cover...Hope this helps... Dick McKee S/V Constellation
E
ES
I like mine
Had it on my old sail and liked it well enough to have it installed on my new sail. I find that if I'm just dropping the hook for lunch or a swim, I don't even need sail ties to keep the sail on the boom. You have to have the control lines adjusted correctly for it to work properly.
Had it on my old sail and liked it well enough to have it installed on my new sail. I find that if I'm just dropping the hook for lunch or a swim, I don't even need sail ties to keep the sail on the boom. You have to have the control lines adjusted correctly for it to work properly.
E
ES
More on Dutchman
I forgot to say in my last post. I have what I believe is the C system, I don't have control line slits in my new sailcover, I lower the control lines and let them hang out from the bottom of the sailcover, no rain stains and no slits to mess with.
I forgot to say in my last post. I have what I believe is the C system, I don't have control line slits in my new sailcover, I lower the control lines and let them hang out from the bottom of the sailcover, no rain stains and no slits to mess with.
J
Johnnie Engesser
More on Dutchman
I appreciate all 6 of the previous responses. I feel better about the consideration. I didn't mention it previously but I plan to add a halyard to the mast so that I can install the A type system. Thought being that I can easily slacken or tighten the topping lift to fly behind the sail and not interfere with the sail shape. Question: Has anyone had a problem with the Dutchman topping lift inteferring with the sail (roach) or the control lines binding into the sail when raised. Someone suggested that you would have to adjust the nylon control lines when raised and lowered to prevent a problem with sail shape. I couldn't see how that could be a problem. I would expect to have to let off of the topping lift some and that, as I said, is the reason for installing the A type. Thanks, Johnnie
I appreciate all 6 of the previous responses. I feel better about the consideration. I didn't mention it previously but I plan to add a halyard to the mast so that I can install the A type system. Thought being that I can easily slacken or tighten the topping lift to fly behind the sail and not interfere with the sail shape. Question: Has anyone had a problem with the Dutchman topping lift inteferring with the sail (roach) or the control lines binding into the sail when raised. Someone suggested that you would have to adjust the nylon control lines when raised and lowered to prevent a problem with sail shape. I couldn't see how that could be a problem. I would expect to have to let off of the topping lift some and that, as I said, is the reason for installing the A type. Thanks, Johnnie
L
Les Andersen
Dutchman Yes
John, I have the A system on my 37.5. I don't know what I'd do without it. Drop the sail, tug the folds at the mast, tug the folds at the leach and install the ties. No it doesn't fall perfectly, seems to need about 5 plus knots of wind across the bow to shake the boom and allow the folds to form naturally. Otherwise a few quick tugs and its done. Until the wind is above 10 knots I don't bother to loosen the lift. It does help above that. I had the B system with the continous line but it was always slipping and messing up the alingment. Had it switched to the A type last fall and it works much better. Also because you have to keep the bottom jam disks in the pockets adjusted lose enough to allow for slippage when there is a problem, the lines do slip and need to be adjusted a couple of times per season. I used to keep them tight but had the sail slides snap off in a gust, my fault, and the flogging sail pulled the pockets right off the foot. Better to keep them a little loose and not have to pay for the repair. I haven't noticed the staining others mentioned. I clean the sails each season and whatever is on them seems to come off. If you had the A system and did not want to modify the sail cover and had a solid vang you could lower the cable and not have to worry about the staining or cover. But then would have to raise the lift each time. Not a big deal either way. Les s/v Mutual Fun
John, I have the A system on my 37.5. I don't know what I'd do without it. Drop the sail, tug the folds at the mast, tug the folds at the leach and install the ties. No it doesn't fall perfectly, seems to need about 5 plus knots of wind across the bow to shake the boom and allow the folds to form naturally. Otherwise a few quick tugs and its done. Until the wind is above 10 knots I don't bother to loosen the lift. It does help above that. I had the B system with the continous line but it was always slipping and messing up the alingment. Had it switched to the A type last fall and it works much better. Also because you have to keep the bottom jam disks in the pockets adjusted lose enough to allow for slippage when there is a problem, the lines do slip and need to be adjusted a couple of times per season. I used to keep them tight but had the sail slides snap off in a gust, my fault, and the flogging sail pulled the pockets right off the foot. Better to keep them a little loose and not have to pay for the repair. I haven't noticed the staining others mentioned. I clean the sails each season and whatever is on them seems to come off. If you had the A system and did not want to modify the sail cover and had a solid vang you could lower the cable and not have to worry about the staining or cover. But then would have to raise the lift each time. Not a big deal either way. Les s/v Mutual Fun
D
Dick McKee
John...
we raise the main to about 90% and then take all tension off the toping lift, then raise the sail the remainder of the way. When lowering we just reverse the order, lower the main a little put tension on the lift so the control lines can do their job, and lower the main This works great for us and doesnt interfear with sail shape or handeling...
we raise the main to about 90% and then take all tension off the toping lift, then raise the sail the remainder of the way. When lowering we just reverse the order, lower the main a little put tension on the lift so the control lines can do their job, and lower the main This works great for us and doesnt interfear with sail shape or handeling...
S
Sam Marks
Hot and Cold
Had system installed on our 1994 33.5. It works okay but the sail maker only used two guide lines instead of three and we get some sail fall off at the end of the boom. All in all it was worth it but make sure you get the right number of guide lines (they are the ones the sail slides up and down on. Also it takes time for the sail memory to set for flaking.
Had system installed on our 1994 33.5. It works okay but the sail maker only used two guide lines instead of three and we get some sail fall off at the end of the boom. All in all it was worth it but make sure you get the right number of guide lines (they are the ones the sail slides up and down on. Also it takes time for the sail memory to set for flaking.
E
ES
One for sale on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=474538551
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=474538551
P
Pat Spino
Dutchman: yes but definitely not perfect
Coming from no flaking system on my previous boats to the Dutchman on my current boat (Legend 35.5)has me liking the Dutchman. It took quite a bit of experimenting and frustration to get used to using it. I believe my system is the "A" system (loop attached to halyard). There are several "tricks" to getting the best from the system. 1) Definitely get the three mono line system. Two mono lines allow the end of the sail to cascade off the boom. 2) The halyard/topping lift/mono lines all must be tight when lowering the sail or else the sail will not stay on the boom. I have also found that they must be tight when raising the sail as well. If not tight the topping lift sometimes snags on the split backstay fitting. I also added a rope clutch and ran the topping lift aft to the cockpit for ease in adjusting the tension on these lines. (Tight when raising and lowering -- slack when sailing) It works well and makes things a lot easier. 3) Replace the mono lines every year. I definitely prefer the Dutchman to not having anything and believe it's preferable to lazy jacks albeit considerably more complicated.
Coming from no flaking system on my previous boats to the Dutchman on my current boat (Legend 35.5)has me liking the Dutchman. It took quite a bit of experimenting and frustration to get used to using it. I believe my system is the "A" system (loop attached to halyard). There are several "tricks" to getting the best from the system. 1) Definitely get the three mono line system. Two mono lines allow the end of the sail to cascade off the boom. 2) The halyard/topping lift/mono lines all must be tight when lowering the sail or else the sail will not stay on the boom. I have also found that they must be tight when raising the sail as well. If not tight the topping lift sometimes snags on the split backstay fitting. I also added a rope clutch and ran the topping lift aft to the cockpit for ease in adjusting the tension on these lines. (Tight when raising and lowering -- slack when sailing) It works well and makes things a lot easier. 3) Replace the mono lines every year. I definitely prefer the Dutchman to not having anything and believe it's preferable to lazy jacks albeit considerably more complicated.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.