Experience with 4D Batteries

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Feb 6, 1998
11,674
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I think you are right about the battery guys math but after further review I believe the 4D's are the way to go. Here is why. I found the table below on the net and it gives the general AH ratings per battery type.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

Group 27 85-105 Amp hours 12 volts
Group 31 95-125 Amp hours 12 volts
4-D 180-215 Amp hours 12 volts
8-D 225-255 Amp hours 12 volts
T-105 180 to 225 Amp hours 6 volts

As you can see if I have 2 4D's I have a range of 360-430AH's and 4 T-105's have a range of 360-450AH's. You are correct there are more AH's at the upper end by 20 for the T-105's but the extra cost of the batteries and of the cables (not to say anything of a x2 for potential defective batteries) makes the 4D's seem more attractive.


To address your other statement about true Deep Cycle (DC) batteries. The Interstate SRM-4D's are advertised as DC Batteries so I will have to check whether they are "true" DC Batteries or not. I appreciate your bringing that part up.

Not withstanding any of this I appreciate your input and help with this. It made me look much deeper than the initial math which made it sound much better than what it was. If it turns out to be a bad decision I will let you know.
Firstly you can't compare a an Interstate SRM 4D "Deep Cycle"/Cranking battery to a Trojan DEEP CYCLE. This is akin to comparing the reliability of a Honda or Toyota to a Renault Le-Car IMHO. Those brands are not even in the same class. The Interstate SRM-4D is made by Johnson Controls/JCI for Interstate.

I actually called interstate to try and find out the Ah rating and plate thickness. What a debacle. Even their tech support had no clue. I got three different answers when I asked about the 20 hour Ah rating.:doh::doh::doh: If you have a battery monitor you NEED to know the precise 20 hour Ah rating or it will NOT work correctly. Buying this battery is a crap shoot without knowing the accurate specs.

Here's a good general rule of thumb. If the manufacturer does not publish a 20 hour Ah rating the battery is often not a true deep cycle battery but then again Interstate does not market this as a true deep cycle battery they market it as a deep cycle/cranking battery.

There are however exceptions. NAPA sells the SAME deep cycle 12V batteries that West Marine does but NAPA does not publish the Ah rating in their specs for the battery. A simple call to the manufacturer, Deka, and you know this.

I can tell by looking at the CCA of that battery that it is very likely not a true deep cycle wet cell. A thick plate battery would have a lower CCA value in a wet cell. Interstate labels it as a dual purpose battery or "deep cycle/cranking" these are hybrid batteries that attempt to do both but almost always miss the mark when put into a true deep cycling application like a boat.

One of the only true 4D deep cycle batteries I know if is the Dyno 4Dd (the small d designated deep cycle) not to be confused with the Dyno 4D which is for starting. This battery has an Ah rating of 180 Ah's and cost $268.00 and like many true deep cycle, thick plate batteries, they do not publish a CCA value. My guess is that the SRM 4D is going to be under 200 Ah's at the 20 hour rate.

If you want to compare a more similar product compare to the Sam's Club/Energizer 6V GC2's which are about $72.00 each and 225 Ah's or the Interstate U2200 6V at 232Ah's. All of these batteries are made by JCI. Interestingly enough the old U2200 6V used to be made by US Battery and was an EXCELLENT top quality battery. Now that it is made by JCI it had better cost the same as the Sam's Club JCI battery...:):) I guess paying for the quality of the US Battery, to put the Interstate name on, left them with little margin so they outsourced it to a less expensive vendor.

That being said any 6V battery, good quality or lower end, will almost always have thicker plates than a dual purpose flooded 4D and thus last longer in most deep cycle applications. I've yet to see a floor machine or golf cart with 4D's or 8D's.. ;) 6V batteries are also taller by design so sulfation can be shed off the plates and fall to the bottom of the case during equalization. A shorter battery fills up with shed plate junk faster than a shorter one. As you get into even thicker plate deep cycles like the Trojan L-116 they are even taller.

If you have the room for 4 6V batteries they are almost always the better choice and in most cases, unless comparing to a very low end 4D and a high end Trojan, as you are, will cost less on an Ah basis.

As has been said the number of cells is the same in a 4 battery 6V bank as in a 2 battery 12V bank. The plastic case around the individual batteries makes little difference as all batteries are made up of individual 2V cells. A 12V battery has to pack 6 2V cells into the case thus they have thinner plates. A 6V only needs to pack 3 2V cells and the plates can be thicker as can the cell separators.

My Synopsis of Wet Cell Batteries by Grade/Quality:

Top Tier:

Rolls/Surrette

I intentionally left a space here because the Rolls batteries are significantly more top tier than US or Trojan..

Trojan
US Battery

Second Tier:

Dyno
Crown
Superior
Deka/East Penn

Third Tier:

Johnson Controls / Private Label
Exide
Interstate (most of these are made by Johnson Controls)
Various Private labeled batteries



Here's some quick math comparing apples to apples or manufacturer to manufacturer:

Cost:
4 Sam's Club / JCI GC2 6V Batts = $288.00

2 Interstate / JCI 4D Batteries = $434.00

Ah's
4 Sam's Club / JCI GC2 6V Batts = 450 Ah's

2 Interstate / JCI 4D Batteries = ????? (under 400 Ah's anyway)

Cost per Ah:

Sam's Club / JCI @ 450Ah = $0.64

Interstate / JCI @ 400Ah = $1.09

NOTE: Please keep in mind that 200 Ah's is likely not what the 4D's are and they are likely less in Ah capacity so your Ah per dollar will likely be higher.

When comparing apples to apple or JCI batts to JCI batts the 6V batteries are nearly HALF the cost per amp hour....
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,810
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Interstate

I agree the 4D interstate were horrible compared the few years I had them installed by dealer cheappy but now T-105 's are like night and day and worth the Extra $$$$$$,you get what you pay for and these T-105's are great after using them finding out how so much better and don't need charging as much and we do give them a working with all the junk we take on the boat like computer's 2 of them chartplotter Radar Auto inverter TVDVD and microwave droid on and on we work our new T-105 and they just keeping going with out needing as much charging like our interstate 4D's
Nick
 

Nodak7

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Sep 28, 2008
1,249
Hunter 41DS Punta Gorda, FL
Wow! Marine sail this is a very comprehensive write up and lots of information regarding batteries and their capabilities. We spent our first weekend out with the new 4D's and they were quite satisfactory for us. BTW we did have the old ones tested and one was totally shot. However, as mentioned in my first post this is my first experience with this size and type of batteries. I will just have to wait and see how they hold up. I do want to thank you all for your input and I will certainly keep it in mind. This has been an education in batteries (Masters Degree) to say the least!
 
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