Expected performance

[JohanSweden]

Hi sailors!
I'm looking into buying a boat in the 45 ft range. Beneteau O 46 or Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45 (2000-2010). I'm not sure what sailing performance I can expect from these models.
I know it is not a performance cruiser like the B. First models but I do read that they sail like performance cruisers?
My expectations are set at a level where I would like to be able to sail from a couple of knots of wind up to (worst case) 40 knots of wind, I wanna get to destination by sail and not motor around all summer.
The reason I don't go for the First models is that I want to be able to do more short and single hand sailing and I believe that a boat like this offers that with everything from bow-thruster, placement of sheets, comfortable cockpit, etc.

Does anyone have any experience that they would like to share? Does that makes sense?

 

[David in Sandusky]

Reviews of the Beneteau 456 are very positive:

Owner resources, parts, accessories, boats for sale, and more.

Owner resources, parts, accessories, boats for sale, and more.

beneteau.sailboatowners.com

 

[DArcy]

PHRF ratings are a fairly good indicator of performance, a lower number indicates a faster boat. Another indicator which will tell you a bit about low wind performance is Sail Area / Displacement. Higher SA/D means you will have a better low air performance but SA/D is only good for comparing similar sized boats. Another number used sometimes is S# which is comparing SA/D to Disp/Length and gives a relative indicator of performance for comparable sized boats. A 30 footer with S# of 3 will be slower than a 40 footer with S# of 3. PHRF is not relative to size so is a bit better indicator.

Beneteau First 40: PHRF 36, SA/D 20.92, S# 3.53
Beneteau Oceanis 461: PHRF 93, SA/D 17.58, S# 3.40
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 45: PHRF 72, SA/D 16.92, S# 2.78

This doesn't mean the First 40 is 3 times faster but gives an indicator of relative performance. You could compare to boats you have sailed previously to get an idea.
PHRF Ratings: PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps
SA/D and S# https://sailboatdata.com/

I've raced a First 40 and, with the right sails, they do sail very well in light air but really stretch their legs over about 10 to 12 knots.

If you really want to know how fast a boat sails, find the Polars for the boat, but they are usually only available for boats that are raced. This will tell you the expected "best" speed for the boat under different wind angles and speeds
First 40

 

[PaulK]

D'arcy's advice provides a good yardstick. To understand PHRF ratings it is important to note that the figures theoretically represent differences in seconds per mile of boats sailing a triangular race course. On a 3-mile triangular (windward, reach,reach) course, the Beneteau First 40 in D'arcy's example would be expected to finish about three minutes (57seconds difference, X 3= 171 seconds) ahead of the Oceanis 46.1. If they did, they'd win the race. If they didn't, and the Oceanis finished just two and a half minutes (150 seconds) after them, the Oceanis would win. Beneteau will provide polars for their boats if you ask them. Their brochures talk a lot about sporty performance. "Test sail" articles describe handling and aesthetics without saying much that the builders haven't already said. PHRF ratings tell you more what you can actually expect.

 

[rgranger]

go to sailboatdata.com and look at the performance numbers. There is a description of what they mean if you follow the link.

 

[JohnShannon]

There is a cool bit of software called Sail Grib. Runs on Android. The free version has polars for many many boats. You can plan a trip on a map, then download the weather files (gRIBs) then input the boat type and it will suggest a routing and give a time estimate. Try it with all the boats you are interested in and see what kind of difference it makes. The author is French (i think) so it biases somewhat to French boats but that is what you are looking at anyway.

 

[sgiarc]

One of the criteria we looked at before buying our B 461 was it's phrf rating. Having had a J34 before our current boat we wanted good performance upwind and downwind. The 461 has not disappointed. it performs well in light air and really kicks up her heels in winds over 15kts. We have sailed in pursuit races at our local club. while others are hard at work on the reaches and runs we are serving snacks and just clipping along.

 

[JohanSweden]

Thank you all for all input! I'll dig into PHRF and Polars to get more informed.