Excess?

[StinkBug]

And where would the oil go once on the asphalt? And where did the floor drain go?

I think his point was that there wasn't any oil to begin with. We're talking about washing the outside of a vehicle, not changing the oil. We're washing off dirt that accumulates from being in the environment.

I'm totally with Berner73. As environmentally friendly as I like to be, a little dust in the water is pretty insignificant compared to the alternatives. Kinda reminds me of all the people that think Hybrids are good for the environment just because they get good gas mileage...ignoring the byproducts of their construction and disposal.

 

[Jumpstart]

Wow!. I keep my boat at a place that is the exact opposite. It is somewhere in the Midwest. Washing, waxing, sanding while on the hard- no problem. Just don't spray any paint on your neighbors boat and be respectful of your neighbors when sanding. In no way way will I mention where this boat yard is. I hope to enjoy the situation as long as possible.

 

[jackhartjr]

Buck 420 and Tommays, you are doing this well! What I wanted to say would have got me kicked off this site!
Jack

 

[sailaway78]

All I gotta say

Is thank God, this kind of idiocy hasn't arrived in this redneck, backwoods part of the world yet.

 

[caguy]

Ask the marina flunky where his green card or passport is. The guy cleaning your boat works for you as an independent contractor or for an employer who is an independent contractor. Askng for his credentials is not your responsibility.
Then tell him "Chinga to madre, cabron pinche pendejo."
You may want to consider waxing on the weekends when he's at home.
Boy ol boy just another reason to stay in mastup.

 

[Rick D]

The Marina...

...is a municipal marina with no services of their own. The boat service personnel must all have city licenses, insurance and California photo ID plus, I guess now, verification of legal residency. My guy is all legal. The enforcement stuff comes from a combination California regulation, Green Marina initiatives and the EPA (see link).
http://www.epa.gov/owow/NPS/mmsp/index.html
It is a well-run marina trying to do things by the book, but sometimes I just have to sigh at the excesses. I already pay twice what I did in Marina del Rey for services, probably because of the Marina licensing requirements. There is a security upside to that and it may generate more stable and professional trades people. Maybe. I doubt it, but maybe. I have seen boaters out in San Diego Bay sanding wooden cap rails. I saw a wooden H28 ketch in my marina being sanded. It was fully tented with negative pressure for the sanding. Don't know how they sanded between coats of varnish; they certainly couldn't have tented it again each coat and it wouldn't have been practical to varnish it tented. Argh, varnish! My teak on the seats was done with 'California AQMD' approved varnish a year ago. They are covered when in the slip. Shot in a year! I may have to call on one of you guys to pick me up some 'real' varnish.
I know it's only going to get worse. I'll just have to adapt, move or quit.

 

[Rick D]

Or, I Guess I Could Move To San Diego...

....http://www.thelog.com/Newsletter/Article/Shelter-Island-Yacht-Basin--Reducing-Copper-Levels

 

[windward54]

Maybe it's time to swing over the Vincent Thomas Bridge and check out our marina.

 

[Joe]

OK, so I have a pile up of projects before the new season, so I paid my boat washer to wax my boat. I'm in SoCal, so the boat stays in the water year round. Anyhow, one of the marina staff comes by and tells my guy two things: first, he must have any employees give a copy of their green card or passport. OK, but how about a little notice? Second, he got dust in the water while wiping off the cutter from the hull. Dust in the water is not permitted. DUST? I am at the mouth of the friggin' L.A. river! Any idea what flows down here though 60 miles of urban run off? So, a suggested 'solution' is to tape off plastic around the boat to the dock and then dispose of it at the end of the day. Forget the fact that half the day would be spent installing and removing the catch basin ($$$), it makes moving the boat around really difficult. I know that one eco group suggested (in another SoCal location) that the boats could be hauled and tented for waxing. But of course!
I'm must getting old, really old; I'm having trouble getting my head around it.

My marina requires all vendors and their employees, to check in with required documentation, proof of insurance, etc.... it's in your rental contract. If your "guy" went to Home Depot and picked up a couple of day laborers to help him wax your boat, both of you are in violation of the agreement...

Sorry Rick. but your boat maintance operator should know this. There are many professional maintenance companies working in my marina here in Mission Bay. There are full service outfits and there are others that specialize in bottom cleaning only. They all understand the marina's restrictions and abide by them if they want to keep working. Your guy obviously doesn't...and has tried to cover it up by dramatizing the event.

For what it's worth, I normally wax my hull during haul out just to avoid that kind of crap. I'm guessing that if you were doing the work yourself, they might not have said anything, but when you have a bunch of strange, unfamiliar guys guys crawling around the boat, running power tools and such.... the manager's gonna have a look. I'll even wager it was one of your boat neighbors that called to report in the first place.

 

[kenn]

Second, he got dust in the water while wiping off the cutter from the hull. Dust in the water is not permitted. DUST?

Yes it seems petty, and I think that all sides need to be certain of what the actual pollution load is, and view it in relation to the other potential polluters in the area. I'd imagine one busy car detailing shop would rinse more more wax residue down the drain in a week than a boater in 10 years... then again the detail shop may already have protective measures in place.

Looking back at waxing your boat in the water... assuming that the volatiles evaporate and 50% of the wax 'sticks' to the boat, then up to 50% of the remaining solids could end up in the water. That doesn't sound like much, does it... but consider two points: if it took two bottles of wax to do your boat, then it's as if you dumped one bottle into the water, which by itself would be a banned act...and what would be the total effect if every boat in the harbour also waxed on-water?

I don't have the answer, and I hate inconvenience as much as the next guy, but at the same time if nobody does their part, then nothing will change.

 

[Rick D]

No One Called It In...

My marina requires all vendors and their employees, to check in with required documentation, proof of insurance, etc.... it's in your rental contract. If your "guy" went to Home Depot and picked up a couple of day laborers to help him wax your boat, both of you are in violation of the agreement...

Sorry Rick. but your boat maintance operator should know this. There are many professional maintenance companies working in my marina here in Mission Bay. There are full service outfits and there are others that specialize in bottom cleaning only. They all understand the marina's restrictions and abide by them if they want to keep working. Your guy obviously doesn't...and has tried to cover it up by dramatizing the event.

For what it's worth, I normally wax my hull during haul out just to avoid that kind of crap. I'm guessing that if you were doing the work yourself, they might not have said anything, but when you have a bunch of strange, unfamiliar guys guys crawling around the boat, running power tools and such.... the manager's gonna have a look. I'll even wager it was one of your boat neighbors that called to report in the first place.

Naw, he's a ten-year registered guy. Well known. The documentation thing was new as was the catch basin thing. I was there. This happened during a regular marina inspection. He wasn't dramatizing. He was clearly surprised. It had nothing to do with me. I have lots of options to avoid this, including out of the country. Others don't. Heck, I can just go out of the channel and wax like the San Diego guys do for sanding. As much as I appreciate 9and I truly do) that pollution must stop somewhere, and that means everywhere... it simply seems... excessive. My whole point.

 

[Rick D]

Hey, Joe...

"For what it's worth, I normally wax my hull during haul out just to avoid that kind of crap."

Do you only wax the hull once every three years or so? It could be you have a better environment than me; you probably do in SD. You know how busy LA/LB ports are and how urbanized the area is. I used to wax evry two. Now, the wax is shot after one. If you want to keep the surface sealed, it's a yearly exercise. (Of course, no doubt the formulations have had to be modified for regulatory reasons too.)

I once purchased a nine-month old repossessed boat twenty years ago in the same port area. It had dust out of every orifice for a year. The surface was so alkaline that I had to wax it twice a year. I began using New Glass on it which helped a lot, but I am not prepared to do that with this boat.

 

[caguy]

Dust in the water is not permitted.

It is if you buy Dust Credits.

 

[Rick D]

It Seems To Me This Is An Assault On Boating

I am developing an opinion that the political / regulatory system is skewed to an assault on the boating experience because it is identified with rich people, it is correlated with dumping bad stuff into waterways and because it represents an unnatural imposition upon nature. And, it has a weak lobby. The only saving grace is that developers and business development people for municipalities like to have a marina with pretty boats in background shots. That too will change with time.

 

[jimmcgee]

I am developing an opinion that the political / regulatory system is skewed to an assault on the boating experience because it is identified with rich people, it is correlated with dumping bad stuff into waterways and because it represents an unnatural imposition upon nature. And, it has a weak lobby. The only saving grace is that developers and business development people for municipalities like to have a marina with pretty boats in background shots. That too will change with time.

Rick I think it's more a matter of being skewed to beat up the little guy. Municipalities routinely dump tons of untreated waste into the water. But if your Y-valve isn't zip tied to your holding tank you get a fine. We worry about the amount of copper in bottom paint but big companies dump huge amounts of crap in the water. On the one side we have environmental zealots who are putting regulations in place that are completely out of touch with the real world. On the other side we have politicians making exceptions for anyone with deep enough pockets to donate to their campaign -- remember a donation is NOT a bribe :naughty:

Unfortunately the average person and the average small business owner is caught in the middle. What likely happened is a municipal, county or state inspector was in the week before looking for revenue. The marina then got fined for "violations" so they were feeling touchy. Politicians latch onto this stuff as a huge revenue generator.

I'm not willing to go back to a time when the Cuyahoga River caught fire, but there needs to be some balance.

And I'm sorry but to suggest that waxing my boat is an environmental hazard beggars belief.

 

[reworb]

Just one of the many reasons I moved from So. Cal. to Florida. Don't get me wrong I loved Cali and lived there for for 25 years. But the high taxes, cost of living and this kind of stuff just got to be too much. Plus there are so many residential canals here you can keep your boat behind your house and not have to pay slip fees

 

[Stu Jackson]

And, it has a weak lobby.

That's why I support BoatUS.

 

[Joe]

Do you only wax the hull once every three years or so? It could be you have a better environment than me; you probably do in SD.

Exactly right........ no dust or other contaminents in Mission Bay, my friend, our politicians insure a constant flow of hot air that blows it north to settle in the LA/Long Beach area. Even more unbelievable is they have found a way to house train the harbor seals to comply with local MSD restrictions...heh, heh.

Seriously, though, I understand the frustration... especially since everything on your side seemed squared away....

 

[jimmcgee]

That's why I support BoatUS.

Amen. I've been a member as long as I've owned a boat and they do good work.

 

[Rick D]

Stand Tall...

Amen. I've been a member as long as I've owned a boat and they do good work.

I'm a donor and also a donor to RBOC, Recreational Boaters of California. You just can't sit on the sidelines on boating issues. It takes people and dollars to educate the water-interests and legislators & regulators. It is way easy to pass some stupid (if well-intentioned) law or write some stupid regulation that affects us all.