Ethical question, re buying a boat

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Not a question of ethics.

I dont think this is a question of ethics. If he truly forgot the sail on the boat and it wasnt meant to be part of the deal, then the ethical thing would be to return it. In my mind, there is no doubt about it. But I dont think that ethics should always apply. I feel like its a question of 'screw you'.Ethics are good in an ethical world. If someone lies to you to make a sale, then all bets are off. I was always one for 'sinking down to their level'. Do you abide by eastern philosophies in which you never allow your body to be damaged or the Christin philosophy of turn the other cheek? (using this as an analogy - not trying to start something)Personally, I dont have any conscience when it comes to people like this. That is the standards I live by. If it were me, I would do the right thing. Given the situation, the 'screw you' attitude is the right thing.Higgs said "I wonder, if after selling you the boat one of his buddies said, "Did you let than new 130 go with the boat? I would have goven you $500 for it". Well, I quit wondering about that one.Tony B

 

[EatDrinkHealthy]

If it fits your boat keep it

My take is that if it fits your boat you should keep it. If it fits his current boat give it back. If he doesn't have a boat, keep it as he is trying to sell it on eBay.Don't sink to his level. He might not know he is not trustworthy but you have higher standard.

 

[Dan]

I think the ethical answer

is based on whether you believed the sale included the sail (no pun intended). You didn't just buy the boat, you bought the boat and the inventory. If you inventoried the boat with the sail, you should naturally assume the sail was part of the bargain. He should have done the same.As for the repair, well, he's either lying or not, and you have no way of knowing. Thus, I'd consider that to be a separate issue. It does, however, legitimately call his trustworthiness into question.Here's what I'd do:Come up with a dollar figure that would make you feel right that would cover your concerns about the repair and the return of the sail. Make him an offer. If he agrees, you'd feel better. If not, at least you tried.

 

[RAD]

Tell him your going to sell the extra sails

On EBay so you can pay for to hire a surveyor to check out the damaged area on the boat and there's no more discussions about this boat and inventory between usBoy some people have a big set of balls

 

[48dodge]

I like that idea, RAD

Also, tell him that you'll be more than happy to send him a link to the auction if he's interested. I do think, what was in the boat at the time of the inspection and sale should all be included in the sale unless it was stipulated up front. Especially if it fits the boat. If it was really important to him, he shouldn't have been storing it in his floating storage shed or it should have been the first thing to come off the boat before showing it.

 

[John]

Actually

if the guy sold you the boat after having told you the hull had never been damaged, then he sold it under false pretenses. It seems to me it's like selling a house after covering up some serious structural problem. So, if you wanted to press it, wouldn't he be liable, wouldn't he be legally required to cancel the sale and return the boat, or something like that? If it's an older boat, it may not be worth it to go to court, but it seems to me that you could at least tell him you're going to if he doesn't rebate you some of the sale price. It would be different if he'd not said that it had never had any hull damage, but if it's true that he did, then he sold it under false pretenses.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

The practical thing to do is....

...just cut off all communications. The sale is over and done with. No bargaining, no threats of reversing the sale, no lawyers, no nothing.This should be a dead issue unless of course you want to keep stirring up shit in your life.Tony B

 

[higgs]

Judge Judy

Let her decide.

 

[Warren Milberg]

FWIW....

used boats are usually sold "where as and as is." To me, having been a broker, that means a number of things like (1) caveat emptor (short for hire the best surveyor you can find so you won't be surprised when sellers are not entirely forthcoming or candid about the boat they are selling); and (2) what you see is what you get (which includes all visible sails and equipment when the boat is shown, unless some piece of gear or equipment is specified in the contract as not conveying...).

 

[jviss]

Undo transaction

I would tell him that I want to undo the transaction, since the boat was misrepresented. Then he can have the sail back, along with the boat. I would ask him first, and if he declines, I would tell him I was going to sue sue him; and if he still doesn't, I would then sue him.I think you would be perfectly within your rights to follow htis path. There is nothing that gets people's attention like suing them.(No, I am not a lawyer).

 

[KennyH]

I would offer the sail back for repair of hull

I would offer to return the sail if he would have the hull professionally repaired. That way both of you would be happy. If he refuses to do that I would keep the sail as it really was part of the original transaction if aboard the boat. Sails are expensive so maybe you could also sell it for money for the repair.

 

[Banooma]

marine survey?

I guess this one of the reasons we have marine surveyors. I think it would have formalized the inventory and valuation of your boat, plus his trained eye might have found a 14 foot long repair. I'm a little befuddled as to how that was missed to begin with (?) If you hired a surveyor who missed it, I think the responsibility would sit with him...

 

[Ross]

I still haven't read a definitive discription of this damage.

Was it backed into by a barge? did it strike a large buoy? or did somebody scrape the gelcoat docking the boat. Was there broken fiberglass? What manner of repair has been made? This whole discussion is threatening the rally a lynch mob and hoist the seller on his own halyard. I want to read an objective discription of this damage.

 

[Mike]

Unethical behaviour

I know, buyer beware is the norm in buying a used boat of any kind. That being said, the individual lied to you, or misrepresented the facts when he said the boat was never damamged (unethical). A-Have him take the boat back-B-fix the boat and you return the sail!,

 

[John24107]

Benefit of the doubt

You've said the boat has "huge" hull damage. You said that it covers an area 14 feet by 2 feet. How did you not see it before the purchase? Assuming it was below the waterline and the boat was in the water, maybe, just maybe the seller really didn't know about it. Is there any way of telling how old it is? You also don't articulate what the damage is. Is this a large scrape of the gelcoat from rubbing against a concrete pier or was this thing holed? If the former, is that really "huge" damage? If the latter, a vessel that sustained that kind of significant structural damage (28sqft) to the hull would likely have been obvious even when dirty.The exception could well be that it was damaged on its trailer (cradle?) but then, again, how'd you miss it? In any event, it has nothing to do with the sail. It does have a lot to do with the bitter taste in your mouth. Are you angry with the seller or are you angry with yourself for not doing due diligence prior to the purchase?I imagine that you purchased the boat in good faith believing that the contents, including the sail in question, to be part of the deal. You have no obligation to return anything. Regardless of anyone else's opinion, the only person that can answer your question of ethics is the guy in the mirror when you shave in the morning. I think that you already know that.

 

[Pete]

This is a no-brainer....

You bought a boat without a survey, or perhaps even inspecting the boat carefully yourself. Bad on you. The boat comes with whatever was on or in it at the time of the deal. The seller can't decide after the sale what he then wants back. Bad on him.Neither of you has a legal leg to stand on. My advice would be to fix up the boat and go sailing. Forget the rest. Learn from this for next time.

 

[Banooma]

cooler heads

Let's look at this objectively, Russell. As Ross pointed out, we don't know if the damage was structural or cosmetic. We don't know the age or the condition of the boat as you knew it - except that it was presumably filthy. What are the rest of the facts? What is the dollar value of the repair? Did you pay an amount that reflected a boat in poor condition?In a reversal of this situation, suppose you happened to buy a boat with cash, and by mistake had also handed the seller the $1000 cash you had withdrawn for a the vacation you're about to take. Hours later, at the airport you realize your mistake and call the seller. Would it be right for him to say your overpayment was "goodwill" over his asking price, and right for him to keep?We don't yet know that the hull had appreciable damage. We do know that the seller handed you an additional sail that you didn't expect when you paid for it. Whether or not it fits your boat, I think it's his right to sell it on eBay or wear around the house as a toga if he likes..

 

[George]

Ethics

Suppose you found that his wife had left her wedding ring in the boat while cleaning it. Would you say "finders keepers"?

 

[John24107]

Huh, George?

How many wedding rings might a reasonable person think to be a component of a sailboat purchase? Not even close to the same thing.

 

[bffatcat]

What to do

You should be done with this guy. Apparently he`s a snake You really have no obligation to return the sail. The sail is of no consequence But you bought the boat without a survey. Your mistake. Its time to move on. First and foremost you need a competent surveyor to determine if the repair is a cosmetic scuff and ifnot was it repaired properly? If its a scuff I wouldnt worry about it.If its more serious you have to find out if it was in fact repaired properly. If it wasnt that brings us to an entirely different discussion. Things like what did you pay? If it needs a serious repair whats it going to cost? And finally the worst senario. Is is worth fixing? Let us know