Equalizing batteries

Apr 13, 2015
157
Catalina 309 Port Charlotte
Hey guys - I have a single 160watt rigid solar panel with a 20 amp Rich Solar MPPT controller. Have had this on the boat for about 18 months without plugging in. The batteries (1-4D and 1 group 31 - both flooded lead acid with an ACR connecting them when charging) are basically always 100% charged according to the Balmar Smart guage (what with the daily solar and the 30 min under motor each way out to sail and back). We tend to do a lot of day-sailing and use only the nav instruments, chart-plotter and occasional fresh water pump.

question:
  • I just noticed the solar controller does an equalization for flooded batteries by default every 30 days (to 14.6 volts). Is that overkill? or harmful?

I have routinely checked the water in the 4D battery, it has never seemed to diminish any water. The group 31 secondary battery says it is 'sealed' and there seems to be no way of checking water in it...

Any insight would be of great assistance,
Thanks, Dave in Port Charlotte
 

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
4,301
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
14.6 volt is not an equalization voltage. It's not going to do anything to your batteries, I wouldn't even think twice about it again.

What I would think about is if you do actually discharge your batteries substantially and actually need to do an equalization. Your current system is not cutting it. IMHO

dj
 
Apr 13, 2015
157
Catalina 309 Port Charlotte
Yes, thanks DJ. I used the term equalization as that's what the solar controller called it, but as you said that's not truly an equalization level.

I almost never discharge the batts just about any. If i do, I can plug in and use my Blue Seas p12 charger to maintain periodically.

Thanks,

Dave
 
Jan 11, 2014
12,788
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The 14.6 v charge is also low for most FLA batteries. Check with the manufacturer, typically the charge voltage is about 14.8 or 14.9 v.

When the solar panel is putting out 14.6 v how many amps is it putting out?
 
Nov 13, 2013
723
Catalina 34 Tacoma
I bought an inexpensive battery charger for my garage that also includes battery equalization. Drawback is you are encoraged to remove the batteries from the boat to equalize.

Only question is do I equalize 2 FLA Grp 27s in parallel or separate?
 
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dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
4,301
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Parallel to equalize 2 same battery types.
Jim...
Good to know. I've always done each battery separately because of how I determine end of cycle.

dj
p.s. No idea of need, just habit.
 
Apr 26, 2015
663
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
I've never liked connecting 2 different size batteries, or different age batteries, together. Look up the term battery equalization. To really decide if batteries need equalization you need a hydrometer to determine if individual cells are not equal to the other cells in the battery. Alas the term equalization. Doing an overcharge of a lead acid battery will help with stratification and sulfate build up on the plates. The problem with most equalization procedures, is the battery is not fully charged before the process is started so nothing really happens. Bubble, bubble, bubble.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,005
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
The problem with most equalization procedures, is the battery is not fully charged before the process is started so nothing really happens.
The problem with folks who don't know how to equalize batteries is that they do it before they have fully recharged their batteries.

FIFY
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,301
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
The problem with folks who don't know how to equalize batteries is that they do it before they have fully recharged their batteries.

FIFY
There seems to be a lot of mystery around equalization. When to do it, how long to do it for, when to start it, when it's actually complete.

When to do it seems more clear, if you've deeply discharged your batteries - do an equalization. Periodically (lots of different time frames there) it should be done, but really? When do we know we need to equalize?

Now I say that because there are two aspects of equalization, where the name comes from which is the stratification of the cells, but there is also the very real added benefit of converting lead sulfates back into lead and sulfur.

The how long to do it for? Now that one is a real crap shoot! Do we really know how long to do it? I look into all the programs that come embedded in the chargers that claim they do it and I'm not convinced. You can do density readings on the cells and look at it that way. How do you do that on Lifeline AGMs????? I'm not getting a real warm fuzzy here...

When to start it? Here there are as many opinions as there are those talking about equalization, seems anyway. Do it once a month, do it every quarter, do it a couple times a year, do it before commissioning in the spring... I'm sure there are more. Yeah, you an go take density measurements, you an look at voltage, but are these really telling you what's needed? I've no idea and I've never heard anyone give good solid scientific answers...

Then real question I've never seen an answer to - once you start an equalization cycle when is it done? All the routines I've seen in the chargers that claim to have an equalization cycle appear to depend on time. I don't think time is the answer. If depends upon how much work needs to be done in getting the sulfation removed as much as you can on that particular battery. That's not time dependent. That's amount of sulfation dependent. But how do you measure that? I've still not seen a good answer to this one.

@Stu Jackson says above that folks run their equalization cycle before their batteries are fully recharged. I imagine for anyone using an off the shelf charger that has a timed cycle that is absolutely correct.

But it's not how I do my equalizations. Unless I'm doing a routine equalization, which I do a couple times a years normally, I'm often doing an equalization because I screwed up and dropped the charge level in my batteries below 65% (that's just my own internal number - how far to draw down your batteries is a whole other subject). When I drop my batteries below that "magic number", I consider that sulfation is now going to be a concern and I'll hook up my power supply and run what I consider my full equalization cycle. It's actually a full recharge and equalization cycle in one.

How that works for me is I hook up my favorite power supply which is a programable voltage/current power supply that I can program in the voltage to the nearest hundredth of a volt and I set my current to a specified amount depending upon battery size.

Typically for the size batteries we have on sailboats that's 3 amps. It also happens to be the maximum power output for my particular power supply. The key here is you don't run enough amps into the battery to cause heating. Heat kills batteries real fast. I do have smaller and larger programmable power supplies, but the larger one is just too dang big to be schlepping around onto the boat, that 3 amp supply is heavy enough... The smaller one I use on smaller batteries, like my car batteries. I then set that supply to 16.00 volts, 3 amps and let her run. I'm doing a battery right now in fact, for a friend of mine. I don't even worry about the charging state, set up this way the battery just naturally goes through those phases as the charging progresses. Once the battery reaches full charge (I don't monitor this at all) it then enters into the equalization phase as the state of charge dictates within the state of charge of the battery itself. I now monitor for the end of cycle meaning the end of the full recharge and equalization.

Now you can tell me I'm doing things all wrong, go for it. But I'll tell you I've been doing this for about 4 decades across a lot of batteries, both my own and several close friends batteries. Batteries properly treated this way tend to last 12 to 15 years. The only batteries I've lost in a shorter time period than this are those I didn't do this cycle on when I knew I had to... Oh yeah, I've also had batteries have catastrophic failure sooner than that, but that's just the nature of batteries. If they have a mechanical internal failure, that's nothing to do with what this is about.

My big dilemma is learning the real cut-off points for each of the steps. As I move to going off-grid and not have access to consistent shore power and have to rely on solar and wind generated power, I'm trying to understand the more specific parts of this process and how to implement it in a less controllable environment. The battery I'm working on right now has been sitting on this recharge/equalization cycle for pretty close to 24 hours at this point. But that battery was at 5.8 volts when my buddy gave it to me. So it was way beyond fully discharged. I was checking a bit ago and it's running up close to the full end of cycle, but I'd guess it's going to take another 6 to 8 hours to reach end of cycle according to how I see that. Just for kicks, I went out to see what the battery was taking right now as far as current and it's taking just over 300 mA.

I can't run a 24 to 36 hour cycle like this off-grid... that's what I' struggling with...

FWIW

dj
 
May 24, 2004
7,164
CC 30 South Florida
Remember that 6V batteries connected in series will not balance by charging or equalizing. After equalizing I will connect them in Parallel for 24 to 48 hours to allow them to balance and then return them to their 12V series configuration. If using 12V batteries in parallel they will automatically balance during charging. balancing may be required every time new or replacement batteries are paired together. Batteries will balance to the weakest unit and that is why it is recommended that batteries of the same age and condition be used in a Bank.
 
Jun 28, 2005
440
Hunter H33 2004 Mumford Cove,CT & Block Island
Remember that 6V batteries connected in series will not balance by charging or equalizing. After equalizing I will connect them in Parallel for 24 to 48 hours to allow them to balance and then return them to their 12V series configuration. If using 12V batteries in parallel they will automatically balance during charging. balancing may be required every time new or replacement batteries are paired together. Batteries will balance to the weakest unit and that is why it is recommended that batteries of the same age and condition be used in a Bank.
A 6 volt lead acid battery has 3 cells in series, two batteries in series comprise 6 cells, a 12 volt lead acid battery has 6 cells, assuming both 6 volt batteries are the same age, they together in series will function as well as a single 12v battery for charging or reconditioning. If one cell goes bad in either the result is the same. Putting two 6 volts in parallel, when one has a bad cell, you will do no better, than in series. Obviously charging and monitoring each cell individually is the optimum but impractical for our lead acid batteries, and unnecessary in the broad scheme of things, as is paralleling 6 volt batteries, that are used in series.
 
Nov 13, 2013
723
Catalina 34 Tacoma
As far as equalizing, what does a marine charger that equalizes do differently than an automotive charger that equalizes? Do you equalize in the boat?
 
Jun 28, 2005
440
Hunter H33 2004 Mumford Cove,CT & Block Island
As far as equalizing, what does a marine charger that equalizes do differently than an automotive charger that equalizes? Do you equalize in the boat?
Applying a periodic equalizing charge brings all cells to similar levels by increasing the voltage to 2.50V/cell, or 10 percent higher than the recommended charge voltage. An equalizing charge is nothing more than a deliberate overcharge to remove sulfate crystals that build up on the plates over time. These sulfates reduce the capacity of the battery.
This has been called reconditioning on chargers I own.
 
Nov 13, 2013
723
Catalina 34 Tacoma
I suppose I'm trying to ask what does a marine equalizer do different than an automotive equalizer that allows the battery to remain in the boat?
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,301
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
As far as equalizing, what does a marine charger that equalizes do differently than an automotive charger that equalizes? Do you equalize in the boat?
I haven't seen much difference between the two, many just don't tell you what exactly they are doing which irritates me.

I use a scientific programmable power supply, jus' cus' I own three... It doesn't matter in or out of the boat, but I do disconnect all connections if in the boat. Obviously if I've taken the batteries out, they are disconnected from the boat... In my cars, I do not worry about disconnecting them from the car systems. I just don't like the idea in a boat having things hooked up... Just a FYI...

dj
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,301
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Applying a periodic equalizing charge brings all cells to similar levels by increasing the voltage to 2.50V/cell, or 10 percent higher than the recommended charge voltage. An equalizing charge is nothing more than a deliberate overcharge to remove sulfate crystals that build up on the plates over time. These sulfates reduce the capacity of the battery.
This has been called reconditioning on chargers I own.
The problem from my perspective in all of these "off-the-shelf" equalization routines programmed into the chargers is I have yet to see a routine that actually evaluates "end of cycle" that I consider adequate. Not saying none exist, but I haven't seen it.

The breakdown of the sulfates has to depend upon how much exists. I've not seen a charger that gives me confidence that is being evaluated and governing the end of the equalization cycle.

dj
 
Nov 13, 2013
723
Catalina 34 Tacoma
Here is a marketing graphic of a charger that performs a "desulfication" and "recondition" function. The two appear to be very different.
BatteryCharger.png
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,301
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
Here is a marketing graphic of a charger that performs a "desulfication" and "recondition" function. The two appear to be very different.
View attachment 192559
Gotta love the absolutely - no information - graphic... No scale, no values, nothing to define how or way they are doing each part... The graphic would imply that the float voltage is actually higher than the absorption voltage. Wrong. No time scale along the bottom. Are they controlling through time? Current? Something else? Gotta love the words though "Intelligent 7 -Stage Charging"...

Oh, by the way, the left hand side that shows the Desulfation - that's probably representing a method using a high frequency method of desulfation that has not been well accepted as working. There is a theory that high frequency pulses can be used to de-sulfate a battery. I've found a number of people that believe you can desulfate really destroyed batteries by using this method.

I tried this a few years ago with some batteries I had that were shot and could not get it to work. It seemed to me at the time to be a lot of hocus pocus, but there are a lot of folks that think it's great. From my perspective, until I see it work, I'm not a believer. Just a FYI - if you go into the forums that have the off-grid folks that are all talking about batteries and such in homesteading, this subject can be liven up the conversation faster than what's the best anchor in sailing...

dj
 

JamesG161

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Feb 14, 2014
7,751
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
graphic... No scale, no values, nothing to define how or way they are doing each part
Graphics are used to easily explain to the layman, by visualization
.
I was curious and skeptical about my first Equalization, after reading the manual for my...
Freedom 20, boat inverter/charger.

It said full cycle lasted 18 hours, and I could interrupt it, if needed, but repeating is necessary.:(
____
So now the science, for 2 equally matched 12VDC LA, house batteries, installed at the same time, new. [ but after 6 sailing months use]

I hooked my DVM on one parallel battery, and clamp on DC Amp meter. Pushed the GO sequence.
[on full shore power, not much other power use. suggested by the Manual]

Now follow me, using that graphic, which is correct, and I will tell you the VOLT and Amps and some time factor too.

1) Voltage went immediatly to the max of 15.9 VDC and flat lined.
2) Current draw , just like the graphic, as the intense Reversing Chemistry started to "kick the plates awake" [main reason to do this]

Now see the Current slowly drop over about 3 hours to steady AMP draw. Why? Just the standard charging now. [more later on this]

So the reconditioning time line is battery specific, thus no numbers on the graphic. For my situation, 8 uninterrupted hours. [Corrected to 8]

Now why you cannot use my numbers, and why it varies over the age of the batteries.

1) Battery age and your treatment of them.
2) Amp Hours rating
3) Number of past Equalizations done.
4) You may have a different charger than mine.
5) The Amp flow drops, graphically above, to the Standard Charging amps, for my batteries, at that time. More amps are needed for different battery states.

Thus, the visual graphic, for the layman.;)

Jim...

PS: @Head Sail mine does not "desulfer" bad term, even if it is common.
 
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