epoxy resin

dlochner · Dec 23, 2020

West System has been the default sailor's preference for years and yes there are alternatives. System 3, MAS, and TotalBoat from Jamestown Distributors. Of those three I'd lean towards TotalBoat for a few reasons, they provide good tech support, Andy Miller from Boatworks Today is impressed with their product, and they are very supportive of DIY amateur builders and restorers, like Sampson Boat Co, Acorn to Arabella, The Art of Boatbuilding and others (all have YouTube Channels).

The glass you use is dependent on the application. Jamestown can advise you on the choices.

West Marine, while convenient is likely the most expensive. Resin and hardener are very stable and have long shelf lives. West hardener will turn a mahogany color, but chemically it is still useable.

Any wood on a boat will expand and shrink due to absorbing moisture and temperature cycles. Marine varnishes aka spar varnishes, are designed to be a bit elastic and able to move with as the wood swells and shrinks. This helps to prevent it from cracking and flaking off. Automotive clear coats are designed to go on metal or fiberglass which are dimensionally more stable than wood, so I tend to doubt that it would be better than properly applied varnish. You could try it and it may work, or you may end up with a real mess. If this were my boat, I'd stick with a good quality varnish. My preferences are for Epifanes Wood Finish or Total Boat Gleam2. Multiple coats and proper prep are key to a good long lasting finish.

Parsons · Dec 23, 2020

To avoid any confusion from the names of these completely unrelated companies:

West Systems is a brand produced by Gougeon Brothers (Gougeon.com), a small, employee-owned business from Bay City, Michigan founded by three sailing brothers - Meade, Joel, and Jan Gougeon in the late 60s.
West Marine is a marine retail chain owned since 2017 by Monomoy Capital Partners (private equity). It was founded by Randy Repass in California in 1968 to sell mail-order line, and expanded eastward in the 1990s by organic growth into retail and the purchase of rivals, notably E&B Marine.

dlochner · Dec 23, 2020

Parsons said:
West Marine is a marine retail chain owned since 2017 by Monomoy Capital Partners (private equity). It was founded by Randy Repass in California in 1968 to sell mail-order line, and expanded eastward in the 1990s by organic growth into retail and the purchase of rivals, notably E&B Marine.

And even more notably the BoatUS Marine Stores which were exceptionally well run, profitable, and offered good services and prices. It was sad day when that sale occurred.

kloudie1 · Dec 23, 2020

These guys have a good selection and fair prices..
WEST SYSTEM EPOXY KITS | Aircraft Spruce

BobbyFunn · Dec 23, 2020

West system sets really fast. I used west system, total boat, and 3c on the same project. 3c and total boat seemed exactly the same with a nice working times for beautiful levelling. West system was super expensive and started setting within minutes for the same temp as tbe others.

You can mix 3c resin and west hardener no problem for casual non critical applications, but even a little hardner will turn the bach brown.

Hayden Watson · Dec 23, 2020

You should never mix brands of resin and hardener. Epoxies are cross linked polymers which means that part A chemically ties (links) to part B. This is different than catalyzed resins like polyester in which you just need to start a reaction and the hardening takes place.
Using different brands of resin and hardener (even if they use the same mix ratio) would be like replacing the gear in a Chevy transmission with a gear from a Toyota. It ain't ganna link up!

william24424 · Dec 23, 2020

Total Boat. This anchor locker lid had core soaked with water, balsa end grain, easy enough to replace, went underside to preserve nonskid pattern on top. Started as a small job, Not a fun job, not easy to match texture, used total boat fairing compound, then I painted it...couldn't match gray color...don't have picture but imagine an inner gray and dark gray camo pattern. Good part is lid is solid, water proof, and job is done. Good luck.

Ralph Johnstone · Dec 23, 2020

SailingLoto said:
Also, when coating the rudder, can I spray it with automotive urethane clear coat vs varnish in the end?

Does automotive urethane have the same UV inhibitors as varnish ?

jon hansen · Dec 23, 2020

fun fact: was up in the hinckley yard in maine back in 79' saw a worker wrapping up a spectacular varnish job that was so smooth. having been raised on boat with lots of varnish, 'varnish farms', i ask how he achieved such a smooth finish. reply was that he heated the varnish up to 150 degs in a pot of hot water and then sprayed it on with a airless sprayer. never tried it myself.

dlochner · Dec 23, 2020

BobbyFunn said:
West system sets really fast. I used west system, total boat, and 3c on the same project. 3c and total boat seemed exactly the same with a nice working times for beautiful levelling. West system was super expensive and started setting within minutes for the same temp as tbe others.

You can mix 3c resin and west hardener no problem for casual non critical applications, but even a little hardner will turn the bach brown.

West System has several different hardeners with differing qualities. The most commonly used one is a fast hardener (205?) and then there is a slow hardener for warmer temperatures or when a slow cure time is desired. I think there is one more that yields a very clear finish.

Mixing and matching across brands of hardener and resin is not a good idea because each company has somewhat different formulations. The specific properties of the cured resin is dependent on the right hardener going with the right resin in the right ratio. This is very different from polyester and vinyl ester resins, there the catalyst just starts the reaction and does not become part of the cured resin. With epoxy, the hardener and the resin become one compound. Some epoxies, like fairing epoxies, are a little more tolerant of the mix ratio.

Adding additional hardener to an epoxy will not speed up the reaction and you will end up with a soft sticky gooey mess as there will not be enough resin to bond with the hardener. On the other hand, adding additional catalyst to polyester resin will speed up the reaction, however, it may become a fire hazard due to the heat build up and it may trap some of the solvents within the cured resin weakening the final layup.

jon hansen · Dec 23, 2020

the kick time on epoxies is temp related. do all your work at 45 degs and the epoxy will not kick. get every thing the way you want it and raise the temp and it will then kick. one of the perks of living in the cold north.

chip veres · Dec 23, 2020

I like Raka. I bought several gallons of resin and blush-free hardener years ago for a boat that never get completed. Slowly using it up. They are good people to do business with. www.raka.com

Chip Veres
s/v Sand Dollar

BobbyFunn · Dec 23, 2020

Best practice is to do exactly what the product manufacture says to do and not mix brands. Common sense stuff guys. In theory, it doesnt work, anecdotally, it often does work to mix brands. For non critical applications and you run out of hardner, it will probaly work. I had left overs and for a nonboat project didnt want to waste good resin. It worked great. ill insult your theory even further and say my layup material was a black tshirt soaked like paper mache. It was almost too hard to sand.

If im working another boat project with lots of coverage, ill use 3c, if i have to go offshore, im getting a fast setting west marine activity kit for on the water repairs.

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Dec 23, 2020

I've used epoxy to build boats since the late 60s'.Started with WEST Sys, then Raka, MAS, Sys3. All pretty much the same. Last 12-15 years I've been using epoxy from B and B Boatworks, which I'm totally pleased with- I've built 7 or 8 boats using the epoxy from them.

Good service, good stuff.God prices I still use WEST Sys also

shemandr · Dec 23, 2020

If you are ordering mail order be mindful of shipping costs. Epoxy is a hazardous material for shipping purposes so there can be a surcharge.

PaulK · Dec 23, 2020

Raka worked well for me. 1:1 mix ratio means fewer mistakes and less wastage.

capta · Dec 23, 2020

We prefer and use the West System because of the pump system. No measuring. We use it everywhere except on our Zodiac. We use a jeweler's epoxy on that and it works very well.
I'm not going to look it up, but I'll bet Defender can beat WM on anything. They are absolutely my last choice, unless the convenience is worth the extra money.

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