Epoxy ready to apply

[Kerry13709]

Ready to start coating my teak & holly plywood flooring, 23 or so pieces all together. According to support at west systems, they suggest coating each side with three coats of 105 using 207 hardner. I plan to use short nape foam rollers to apply. I was planning on applying all three coats to each side in one period. Was stated that as long as you apply the next coat before the first coat drys, ie still tacky, no sanding was required between coats. I can only do one side at a time, and considered starting with the back. After thinking about it, doing it this way may allow the epoxy to bleed around to the teak side, and cause unwelcome results to deal with. For those who have been through this, or any experts who do it for a living, which way would you go?

 

[CalebD]

You can build up multiple coats as they suggest

at least 3 a day considering where you are - cure time is temperature dependent. The worry I would have about this is any buildup of epoxy at the edges where the pieces join together will cause a bad fit (I am assuming this tiles or panel flooring rather than just plywood). You can try to sand this out but the best solution is to tape each piece off with the silvery (read expensive) masking tape they sell for just this purpose, to protect the edges from any buildup. The bottom of each piece need not be coated with the clear 207 epoxy hardener as it will not be seen so you can use 205 quick hardener for the back or bottom of each piece. Keep a can of Acetone and a rag handy to clean up any boo-boos.I am assuming that you are planning to epoxy the flooring to the sole so the bottom will get another 'coat' of epoxy. I would put a few (maybe 2) coats of clear hardener (207) on the faces prior to installing. The reason being that you will want to put the 'final' coat of clear epoxy on AFTER it is installed and spot sanded. This should yield a smoother, more level surface as a finished product in your boat.Once the 'clear' epoxy has cured and you are happy with how it looks you need to coat it with a product like this: http://www.ultimatesole.com/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=2(I am not sure if they sell this product on this website).I have used the 207 hardener for exterior teak on my sailboat with mixed feelings. I did not totally encase my teak in the epoxy and it is now pulling up some 4 years later. I suspect that using it in the cabin interior should be much better and with completely encasing the wood with this stuff should keep it looking good for quite a while. No, I am not an expert who does this for a living although perhaps I wish I was. Mostly I am a fellow boat owner who has tried a bit of this and that (I prefer the smell of varnish to epoxy). I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night though!

 

[Kerry13709]

Floor attachment

Actually, all but 5 pieces of the pieces just lay in place on the stringers. The five pieces are screwed to the stringers. I am a little worried about the build up on the edges. When I put all the pieces down to be sure they fit, it was a snug fit in some places. Not sure how thick the build up will be. Plan is to do some sanding on the pieces that do not fall in place if I have to. I may test a piece tonight to see how long it takes to get tacky. According to the hardner guide, the 207 has pot life of 22-27 min. I take this to be the amount of time I have to get the mix to the wood. Open time is 110-130 minutes, and cure to solid is 12-18 hours. I am guessing that I need to wait the 1 -2 hours before applying the next coat. If that's the case, I will probably wait until the weedend so that I have a full day to coat all the pieces.On second reading of the times, maybe the "open time" is the time I have to apply the mix...

 

[Kerry13709]

UV coat

I had about settled on using interlux goldspar for the finish coat. That's the only part I haven't purchased yet, so I will check around for availabity of the one you suggested. I can get the other locally, thus not over buying my needs. I believe the site you suggested says it does not have to be sanded between coats. That sounds good.

 

[Lou 14643]

Pot life is in a large, thick mass

Kerry,The mix sets ("kick") as a result of temperature generated by the resin and hardener reacting with each other. The reaction happens much more quickly in a large mass, in your mixing cup or can. You'll actually feel the cup getting hot in your hand if you leave it too long in the cup, or add too much hardener (or the wrong hardener). If, after you mix the parts thoroughly, you pour it into a paint tray or some similar container, to give it more surface area, you will slow the reaction and have more time to work with it.

 

[CalebD]

Lou is spot on about the pot life of the mixed epoxy.

I would only add that if the ambient temperature is in the 80' then it will 'kick' or harden even faster. Do as he suggested and pour out the mixed epoxy into a roller pan so it gets spread out. If it is mixed in a small plastic pot it will 'kick' quite fast in sunny FL. You could also put some ice under the rolling pan to slow down the reaction as it gives off heat. Probably the best thing to do is to mix smaller batches and use them up, then mix up more batches as needed. If you don't have the pumps for dispensing the proper amount of hardener and resin I would suggest you get them as this will help insure a proper mix ratio. Gougen Brothers/West System has a very helpful instruction manual that you may be able to get your hands on and it is online at their website: http://www.westsystem.com/ check the tabs 'Using West System Epoxy' and 'Projects'.While the Goldspar varnish will look great once it is first put on there are at least 2 shortcomings about using a plain varnish on the sole. The first time anyone tracks in some sand it will begin to get scratched up. Anytime water gets on the varnished sole it will be very slippery and a potential hazard. Since you are going through all the trouble and expense of putting down a nice new wood floor you should coat it with a product that will protect your work and provide some traction to your precious crew and cargo. And while 'Ultimate Sole' probably costs twice as much as a varnish it is designed for just this purpose and should last much longer than a varnish finish which will need re-application in high traffic areas yearly (if not more).http://www.ultimatesole.com/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=2Having said all of that, it sounds like a fun project that you will enjoy looking at once completed.

 

[Kerry13709]

Prep work

I did get the west system manual,and have two regular paint trays to pore the mixture after mixing. Heard back from support at west system, and they maintain I need to pre-sand with 80 grit top and bottom. Also said to wait about 4 hours between coats with no sanding needed. Also said to not let much time go between back coating and top coating. Ready to start sanding tomorrow night. Will try to get three coats on the back and edges sat, and the top sun. The varnish- or ultimate sole will have to be done the following weekend. Can't wait to see the results. Will take another look at ultimate sole. I thought the interlux goldspar was polyurathane. It does say it dries more clear than the regular interlux varnishes.

 

[CalebD]

Good luck with your work this weekend.

I looked at the Interlux website and yes, Goldspar is a polyeurathane type varnish. That is to say that it is a varnish with a poly-eurathane base. I don't have a can handy to read the label to see if it is recommended for flooring or cabin soles but I am quite sure that Ultimate Sole is ONLY made for that application and it is designed to give positive traction which is mightily important when talking about floors and companionway ladders.Here is the page where they pitch the advantages of Ultimate Sole: http://www.ultimatesole.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=25and no I do not work for them and I have never used this product myself. I want to use it on my friends boat where I refinished their sole with Schooner varnish. It looked great but it needed more coats than just the one and the slip factor got me a bit worried. I heard about this product from RichH or other denizen on this or another boat related forum I tend to troll.Anyone used Ultimate Sole on their boat care to comment either way?The prep work of sanding with #80 grit paper will give the epoxy something to 'grab' a hold of. Make sure to wipe off your work after sanding with Acetone as the oils in Teak (not sure about Holly) tend to mess with the bonding. A tack cloth is good for removing the dust but do not forget the Acetone wipe down.I am a little flabbergasted that this is a mostly two way conversation with the exception of Lou from Baltimore's input. After nearly 300 views I would have expected someone else to at least say something contrary to what has bee written here. Either no one cares enough or they are too busy with their own projects or do not disagree with what we have discussed. I am kind of flummoxed as the old saying goes: "Get 4 sailors together and there will be at least 5 distinct points of view!".

 

[Kerry13709]

Varnish

I'm a little suprised at the input, but I had a good bit of input when planning what to put down. Some topics just plain get more action, but that's ok as we are all just looking for one more bit of advise to go along with the other research put in on a project that is new to us.I had downloaded information on goldspar, telling how to apply it and other specs. It states the it is a Polyurethane varnish with incredible abrasion resistance. Great for cabin soles. Preserves the rich look of natural wood. Abrasion and chemical resistant. Very hard finish. Goldspar is an easy to use one part polyurethane that contains a unique combination of ultra-vilot additives surface stabilizers and anti-oxidants to ensure long-term gloss and clarity.I'm prety sure it came from thier site. Does ultimate sole have a gloss finish? That it kinda what I am looking for. I did see a lot of products with satin and flat finishes, but all had that "amber" glow finish mentioned, which did not sound like it would look that good over the teak.

 

[jrdesign]

Test it First

Test it first is my advice on using a varnish over the West system epoxy. I used the West epoxy on my tiller and applied Valspar brand spar varnish over itand it never dried. I had to sand it off. After getting some advice from a localIce boat builder I tried Pettit 1015 Captain’s Varnish with good results.The main listed ingredients in Valspar was alkyd resins and mineral spirits.The main ingredients in Captain’s is Alkyd polymer and mineral spirits. If you test a smaller area first you might save your self a lot of sanding. Or maybe I was unlucky and did something else incorrectly but my end result is still looken'good after 3 years in the sun.Good luck on your project.

 

[Kerry13709]

Test

Thanks, I will test on a smaller sized section first. Also, may see if I can contact anyone at interlux for their inpuy.

 

[CalebD]

You generally get good advice here.

And the advice to test out the Goldspar on a scrap piece that you have applied epoxy to is excellent. I have use quite a few of Interlux products but I have never used Goldspar or for that matter Ultimate Sole. So I really have no axe to grind whichever product you use and if Interlux recommends this product for cabin soles then so be it. Use it and enjoy.Good luck Kerry! Let us know how it turns out with a nice glossy photo of your new floor.