Epoxy instead of varnish?

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KorculaChris

KorculaChris

.
Feb 6, 2006
249
Hunter 23 Bay Shore, LI, NY
As part of the on-going restoration of my 1987 H 23, I removed the adjustable O/B bracket and clamping block to refinish. There was a heavy build-up of old dark varnish on the block so instead of sanding I took off a thin slice from each edge with a radial saw. Good thing I did, as the middle of the top of the block was rotted out from water ingress. A hole opened up, full of dust and flakes of old ply, about two inches deep and three inches wide. The PO must have just re-varnished from time to time without surface prep. I tried filling and revarnishing. After one coat, I had the bright idea to try clamping it with a C clamp, simulating the motor in place. CRUNCH, it collapsed. Go to Plan B. I made a new block from 4 layers of half-inch ply, glued with Gorilla glue (believe the hype, it's great and 100% waterproof), bored it for the bolts, and then coated with epoxy (West system 105, with 207 hardener for coating, it has yellow tinge which looks great on the wood) instead of varnishing. Has anyone else experimented with epoxy as a finish? It is very hard, looks terrific, and has given me a one eighth of an inch thick protective surface. I tried the C clamp test and it was good. Comments and experiences? Happy sailing, Chris
 
KorculaChris

KorculaChris

.
Feb 6, 2006
249
Hunter 23 Bay Shore, LI, NY
As part of the on-going restoration of my 1987 H 23, I removed the adjustable O/B bracket and clamping block to refinish. There was a heavy build-up of old dark varnish on the block so instead of sanding I took off a thin slice from each edge with a radial saw. Good thing I did, as the middle of the top of the block was rotted out from water ingress. A hole opened up, full of dust and flakes of old ply, about two inches deep and three inches wide. The PO must have just re-varnished from time to time without surface prep. I tried filling and revarnishing. After one coat, I had the bright idea to try clamping it with a C clamp, simulating the motor in place. CRUNCH, it collapsed. Go to Plan B. I made a new block from 4 layers of half-inch ply, glued with Gorilla glue (believe the hype, it's great and 100% waterproof), bored it for the bolts, and then coated with epoxy (West system 105, with 207 hardener for coating, it has yellow tinge which looks great on the wood) instead of varnishing. Has anyone else experimented with epoxy as a finish? It is very hard, looks terrific, and has given me a one eighth of an inch thick protective surface. I tried the C clamp test and it was good. Comments and experiences? Happy sailing, Chris
 
J

John

watch out for UV

Epoxy/resin is good for long life and strength but UV will attack it if not coated. So, research the West system web site and see what they have to say about protecing the epoxy. Good luck. John
 
J

John

watch out for UV

Epoxy/resin is good for long life and strength but UV will attack it if not coated. So, research the West system web site and see what they have to say about protecing the epoxy. Good luck. John
 
S

Steve

Epoxy vs. Varnish

Chris, UV light will attack your epoxy repair over time causing clouding and loss of strength. I would complete your repair and use Bristol Finish. this will last for about two years in the mid-atlantic. Fair winds, Steve
 
S

Steve

Epoxy vs. Varnish

Chris, UV light will attack your epoxy repair over time causing clouding and loss of strength. I would complete your repair and use Bristol Finish. this will last for about two years in the mid-atlantic. Fair winds, Steve
 
P

patrick

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Jun 7, 2004
944
Birch Bay Washington
If you want it to soak in,

use some lacquer thinner or alcohol to thin it out so it will penetrate the wood better.
 
P

patrick

.
Jun 7, 2004
944
Birch Bay Washington
If you want it to soak in,

use some lacquer thinner or alcohol to thin it out so it will penetrate the wood better.
 
L

Larry Long

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Dec 2, 2003
149
- - Tulsa, OK
Hey Patrick

I've noticed several times you have advised thinning of epoxy for penetration. I need to do some of that and would like more detail from you. Do you thin it after the catalyst is added or before? Do you have any suggestions for a typical mixing ratio? I would probably use lacquer thinner as the thinner. Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
L

Larry Long

.
Dec 2, 2003
149
- - Tulsa, OK
Hey Patrick

I've noticed several times you have advised thinning of epoxy for penetration. I need to do some of that and would like more detail from you. Do you thin it after the catalyst is added or before? Do you have any suggestions for a typical mixing ratio? I would probably use lacquer thinner as the thinner. Thanks for any help you can provide.
 
R

Rick

Liquid Wood Wood Epox

Check out a product called Liquid Wood Wood Epox by Abatron. It is a two part Epoxy Wood Consolidant. A liquid epoxy is allowed to soak into the wood fibers and then a solid two part epoxy is used to fill the wood voids. I used the liquid on the bulkhead walls and was amazed how it saturated and fortified the wood plywood. I also used it on the underside and sides of the teak & holy sole plywood. The product soaked into the soft sides and now the plywood is hard. One thing to remember is let is thoroughly cure. Since the floor boards were treated in the basement, I had to bump the heat up a little bit. To bad I wasn't aware of the product when I replaced the wood arounf the portlights on the cabin interior because it would have saced countless labor hours last summer.
 
R

Rick

Liquid Wood Wood Epox

Check out a product called Liquid Wood Wood Epox by Abatron. It is a two part Epoxy Wood Consolidant. A liquid epoxy is allowed to soak into the wood fibers and then a solid two part epoxy is used to fill the wood voids. I used the liquid on the bulkhead walls and was amazed how it saturated and fortified the wood plywood. I also used it on the underside and sides of the teak & holy sole plywood. The product soaked into the soft sides and now the plywood is hard. One thing to remember is let is thoroughly cure. Since the floor boards were treated in the basement, I had to bump the heat up a little bit. To bad I wasn't aware of the product when I replaced the wood arounf the portlights on the cabin interior because it would have saced countless labor hours last summer.
 
R

Rick

Liquid Wood Wood Epox

Check out a product called Liquid Wood Wood Epox by Abatron. It is a two part Epoxy Wood Consolidant. A liquid epoxy is allowed to soak into the wood fibers and then a solid two part epoxy is used to fill the wood voids. I used the liquid on the bulkhead walls and was amazed how it saturated and fortified the wood plywood. I also used it on the underside and sides of the teak & holy sole plywood. The product soaked into the soft sides and now the plywood is hard. One thing to remember is let is thoroughly cure. Since the floor boards were treated in the basement, I had to bump the heat up a little bit. To bad I wasn't aware of the product when I replaced the wood arounf the portlights on the cabin interior because it would have saced countless labor hours last summer.
 
R

Rick

Liquid Wood Wood Epox

Check out a product called Liquid Wood Wood Epox by Abatron. It is a two part Epoxy Wood Consolidant. A liquid epoxy is allowed to soak into the wood fibers and then a solid two part epoxy is used to fill the wood voids. I used the liquid on the bulkhead walls and was amazed how it saturated and fortified the wood plywood. I also used it on the underside and sides of the teak & holy sole plywood. The product soaked into the soft sides and now the plywood is hard. One thing to remember is let is thoroughly cure. Since the floor boards were treated in the basement, I had to bump the heat up a little bit. To bad I wasn't aware of the product when I replaced the wood arounf the portlights on the cabin interior because it would have saced countless labor hours last summer.
 
F

FrankR

3 - 5 coats marine urethane over epoxy

I have built 2 wood kayaks and this 12 foot sailing dingy - you get a nice finish like this http://members.gcnet.net/swampman/fullhlf.jpg
 
P

patrick

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Jun 7, 2004
944
Birch Bay Washington
Mix it first

then thin it to suit. Once you have the proper ratios, it should not matter if you thin the non-epoxide component first. Do not thin it until you are ready to use it. It is critical to mix it very well. You need to ultimately have proper ratios of the A and B components and I prefer the thinner to alcohol as it might react a little. I would advise providing a lot of fresh air if you are doing much of this. There was a link within the last few months to a site that described some of this as it related to making your own bottom paint. I will see if I can find it. Edit... see the link
 
B

Bob

Don't thin too much

You don't need to thin the already-mixed epoxy very much to make it much more "liquid." My guess would be about 10 to 20% - anything close to 50% will make it much too thin. Lacquer thinner is ideal. Something else that helps penetration a lot is to warm up the wood - it will then really soak up the epoxy. You can do multiple layers by mixing the epoxy, keeping it moderately cool (in the summer I use an iced bucket, a la champagne), and applying it to the warm wood. The increased temp will cause it to set up quicker once it's in/on the wood, and keeping the mix cool will delay its "going off" in the pot so you only have to do one mix. And because the previous layer hasn't totally set up before you apply the next, you get a real good "primary" bond. Have an extra disposable brush or two on hand in case the epoxy starts to set up in the bristles. Don't be in a rush to apply the varnish, lightly sand the epoxy surface to take away the gloss and give it good "tooth", and be sure to use a good exterior grade varnish that has LOTS of UV protection - otherwise you are wasting your time.
 
KorculaChris

KorculaChris

.
Feb 6, 2006
249
Hunter 23 Bay Shore, LI, NY
Great advice, guys

Many thanks for all the input. FrankR, your dink looks terrific! Since I have already epoxied the piece, by pouring on a thick layer and using masking tape as a dam to retain it, and it wirked great, I'll scuff and varnish with Bishop's to finish it. Again, thanks for all the advice.
 
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