Environmentally friendly bottom paint

[seadaddler]

I told Her It's Dangerous

I told my wife it it dangerous for me to be Painting our house for the last month.I thought you were talking anti foulingPaint should I stop now and get a prowhat's up,help me guys she doesn'tbelieve me she thinks I am lazywhat's up guys.

 

[John]

Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate the time and effort all of you have taken.

 

[tom]

Back to Common Snese

Breathing anything besides clean air might be hazardous to our health. Some people are comfortable breathing cigarette smoke!!! Dust and any particles are bad. That's why I recommend wet sanding. If you compare enamel house paint to bottom paint they are simular. But water souluble latex type paints are different. Also water based bottom paints are different.  If you are working out in the open air you shouldn't breath too much solvent especially if you are using a roller. Spraying is hazardous and I would wear protection. Spraying produces small particles and fumes. NOT GOOD!!!!! I would wear protection spraying my house!!! Dry sanding is hazardous and you must have protection.  Use water based bottom paint with a roller and wet sand and you should be fine. Now if you drag your boat into a garage and dry sand and spray paint without protection...you might be lacking in common sense.

 

[Alan]

What I have been endeavoring...

...to point out but apparently failing is that the major problem with anti fouling paint is NOT the active ingredient(although it is a problem). It is the solvent that is used to put the copper in suspension. Xylene is highly volatile, highly toxic and can wreak havoc on your body.HOW XYLENE ENTERSAND AFFECTS YOUR BODY Xylene enters your body rapidly when you breathe in its vapors. It can also be absorbed through your skin, particularly if the period of contact is lengthy. Overexposure to xylene most commonly affects your nervous system, respiratory system, and skin, as described below. Nervous System: Xylene, like most organic solvents, affects your central nervous system (your brain) the same way drinking alcohol does. The effects listed below can begin to occur with exposure to air levels of about 100 parts per million (100 "ppm" - see "Legal Exposure Limits" on page 3). They become more noticeable and serious as the level or length of time of exposure increases. Although these effects usually go away fairly quickly after your exposure stops, they can increase your chances of having an accident. Drinking alcohol within a few hours of exposure increases the likelihood of feeling these symptoms. This is because the effects of xylene and alcohol add together.Effects of Xylene on the Nervous System 100-200 ppm nausea, headache200-500 ppm feeling "high" dizziness, weakness, irritability, vomiting,  slowed reaction time800-10,000 ppm giddiness, confusion, clumsiness, slurred speech, loss of balance, ringing in the ears>10,000 ppm sleepiness, loss of consciousness, death I'm not crying wolf here. I'm simply suggesting that you take some basic precautions when using this stuff to minimize your exposure. A respirator is hardly an extra ordinary precaution.

 

[jimq26]

Alan - you are "dead-on" correct!

Hard to figure why some people really don't get it.I remember as a kid listening to our minister preach on a Sunday morning on the topic - "There is no such thing as common sense". The older I get, and the more I read some of these replies, the more I realize that the old minister knew what he was talking about.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Could be he's been out paintin'

too darn long or often.

 

[tom]

Alan the copper and the solvents

For what it's worth I have a masters degree in environmental health and have taken courses in air pollution and industrial hygiene. For what it's worth I am my department's safety officer. I'm the one who properly disposes of hazardous waste. Should I mention that I have 25 years experience in biomedical research???  Xylene is nasty stuff I have a couple gallons in my chemical hood. But xylene can be found in gasoline....did you ever fill up your gas tank your self?? Antifouling paint is toxic!!! So is a permanent ink marker. So is whiteout for typing errors so is model car cement. Aromatic hydrocarbons are all around us and it is logical to reduce exposure. They used to use benezene as a solvent in glue...benezene is in gasoline. Define repsirator!!1 Some people call a simple nusiance mask a respirator. But according to my professor activated charcoal canistor type respirators are of very limited protection. For true protection you need a supplied air respirator. But if you are outside the concentrations don't get very high especially when you are using a paint roller.  But if you look at the MSDS's of paint a lot of the volatile organic solvents are petroleum distillates... these are much less tocic than your aromatics. Typically more like an aliphatic hydrocarbon simular to diesel fuel. Acute high level exosure can be very hard on your liver. but you are very unlikly to get such exposure working outside with a little breeze. Chronic exposure is a much more serious problem because low levels can do harm over time.....BUT I am assuming that you only paint your house or your boat once every several years so chronic exposure shouldn't be a problem.  No matter how often you paint your bottom..once or twice a month??? You should limit exposure. Just like when you are pumping gasoline...don't get down and breath the fumes coming out of the tank!!!! Gasoline is full of aromatics that is how they raise the octane level. The average sailer gets far more exposure to aromatics from gasoline than from bottom paint. Don't be stupid limit exposure from all sources. Use a repirator when you put gasoline in your outboard motor and lawnmower. And if you store your lawn mower in your garage..have you ever noticed the smell of gasoline....that's the aromatics...that's how they got their name... But on a scale of one to 10 where one is breathing air on the top of Pikes Peak and 10 is sniffing glue in a paper bag...painting your bottom outside with a roller is somewhere about a 3.Spraing on antiperspirant or hairspray in a small bathroom is probably an 8. I don't use hairspray and do use a stick deodorant.

 

[abe]

I am with you Tom.....

...or else no one should be pumping gas at the gas station, or having your nails done at the beauty shop...man do those place stink like toxic stuff. Not to mention all those horrible house hold cleaners...read what is that stuff...bad really bad. COMMON SENSE!!!!!!!. Well, maybe some people just want to live in their enviromental ballooon. I'll bet that taking a few inhalations of NY City on a bad smoggy day is worse than painting your boat.

 

[Alan]

tom

If this is your job, then you truly surprise me. I have to ask myself what it is you actually do. I'm agasp at your statements.

 

[Val]

Here is one to consider

This is fairly new and I have not found much info other than the marketing hype. Pretty pricey stuff too. I have not used it nor do I have any connection to the company.

 

[Big Joe]

Agasp !

"If this is your job, then you truly surprise me. I have to ask myself what it is you actually do. I'm agasp at your statements. "Me too, I am agasp too.Regards, Big Joe.

 

[tom]

Devil's advocate??

I am beginning to believe that Alan is the devil's advocate. He's just yanking my chain!!! Safety is very important to me but you have to separate percieved risk from real risk. There was a very pretty young woman at work who was concerned about alar sp on her apples. But she smoked!! She got mad at me when I pointed out that the real risk of smoking was well established and much greater than a little pesticide on her apples. I wasn't advocating eating pestcides just trying to give her a little perspective. Knowledge is power!!!! All of you older guys must remember Catch 22 where he is flying in a bomber and takes care of his buddie's wounded arm. Does a really good job and then notices that the guy's guts are hanging out in his shirt. Sure the arm was a problem and needed to be addressed. But the guy died from being eviserated. My favorite story of situational awareness was about these two pilots. Their engine went out and they were trying to restart the engine and flew into a tree killing them both. They had flown over several good fields where they could have safely landed but were determined to restart the engine. The wife in the back seat was the only survivor who told the tale. The biggest irony is that the tree was an only tree out in the middle of a big field. Alan this story was related in a "safety" seminar presented to pilots.Don't worry about you fading gelcoat when you are sailing onto a reef!!!

 

[John Nantz]

Ummmm..... I'm confused!

And No, I haven't been smokin' anything either (or is that spelled ether?). Aren't tom and Alan saying the same thing? So what's the problem? Bottom line, chemicals are basically not good for you.One rule of thumb with working around chemicals is "if you can smell it, it's probably bad". What's really bad about some chemicals is they can have a cumulative effect on the body. For my (boats) bottom jobs I like to hire out the sanding, painting, and waxing.Speaking of flying and long odds, a couple decades ago in Northern California, a Bank of America charter twin-engine plane that made weekly (daily?) flights from the Bay Area to Montague (just below the Oregon border) was making it's regularly scheduled trip but in IFR conditions. The pilot apparently had vertigo and apparently didn't trust his instruments (or something like that) and due to the mountainous terrain he was climbing and at around 14,000 feet hit Mt Shasta. Well, at that altitude, Mt Shasta, at somewhere around 14,200 to 14,400 ft is the ONLY mountain within a few hundred miles. Go figure. What are the odds of that?Oh, and another one. A friend and co-worker of mine who is from Eugene, Oregon (yup, the track and field/jock capital of the US), and who liked to run for health reasons, (I always told him that running is hazardous to your health - bone spurs and all that stuff) came to work one day with crutches and one leg in a full cast. Hey Mike, what happened??? Well, seemed he was out doing his daily run and came off a sidewalk to cross a street and while looking for cars didn't notice the little rock on the asphalt. Wound up turning his ankle and breaking or shattering something in his leg. It's one of these things that's so bad yet at the same time I can't help but have a little chuckle, but with watery eyes.And then there are the joggers that run along busy streets (I know, there are more witnesses), but they're breathing all that gas and diesel exhaust. Has anyone ever done a "cost-benefit" analysis to see if it's better for the health?The good thing about tomorrow is, I'm going to a boat show!

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Despite fear of adding to this mess

I think it's not so much an issue of risk but of how much risk one is willing to accept. Many people think skydiving is dangerous (myself included) and would never do it but think nothing of driving all day to find a bargin on towels.It's solely a matter of how much risk one is willing to accept.To put it another way, we do things (like bottom paint) all the time but would never allow our 2 yr old child to be exposed to the same thing for the same period.

 

[John Nantz]

You know, Don.....

I know just how you feel. Sometimes you just gotta have guts and go for it! Sorta like your sky diving example

 

[DanW9494]

Risk is always relative

The human body, and all life as we know it, has adapted to living in an environment of chemicals, radiation, and microscopic-to-huge predators that can kill us, but don't quickly anyway because of our adaptation. Our bodies battle deterioration through out our lives until we succumb. Some people can smoke past 100 years, some die in their thirties, most live full lives, but they're all stupid IMHO.Unless the paint is toxic in a new way, or proper procedures are not followed, the risk shouldn't be higher than for the people who have been doing this for a long time. Do we know the cancer risk for bottom painters?So I'm a little more careful as i get older. I fill up my wife's car with gas, because i don't want to starve if she dies first.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Now this is a wise man who said

"So I'm a little more careful as i get older. I fill up my wife's car with gas, because i don't want to starve if she dies first."