We are not permitted to paint the bottom of our boats ourselves due to DEC regulations in our marina's yard. I was wondering if there was by now an environmentally friendly bottom paint available which could be done by the boat's owner even if it is less effective than traditional types.
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NY DEC apparently does not prohibit this
I wouldn't be so quick to blame the DEC - sounds more like a marina deceiving there patrons. Also, the DEC apparently makes no distinction between types of bottom paint except for TBT paints A quick search turned up this from, the NY DEC web site: "Boat Owners Who Apply Antifouling Paint on Marina Property Boat owners who are not Commercial Pesticide Applicators Certified in subcategory 5D may use antifouling paints on marina property only if all of the following conditions are met: the boat owner uses antifouling paints that are General Use pesticides and follows all pesticide label directions; and the boat owner personally owns or leases the boat being painted; and the boat owner has an agreement for boat storage at the marina and has written permission from the marina owner/operator to paint their boat on marina property or a specific clause in their contract, lease, or other form of written agreement for boat storage at the marina that allows this activity." It is the marina's prerogative whether or not you can do your own bottom...
I wouldn't be so quick to blame the DEC - sounds more like a marina deceiving there patrons. Also, the DEC apparently makes no distinction between types of bottom paint except for TBT paints A quick search turned up this from, the NY DEC web site: "Boat Owners Who Apply Antifouling Paint on Marina Property Boat owners who are not Commercial Pesticide Applicators Certified in subcategory 5D may use antifouling paints on marina property only if all of the following conditions are met: the boat owner uses antifouling paints that are General Use pesticides and follows all pesticide label directions; and the boat owner personally owns or leases the boat being painted; and the boat owner has an agreement for boat storage at the marina and has written permission from the marina owner/operator to paint their boat on marina property or a specific clause in their contract, lease, or other form of written agreement for boat storage at the marina that allows this activity." It is the marina's prerogative whether or not you can do your own bottom...
They Allow it to be sprayed on crops
Copper is used to control pests in agriculture. The good thing about it's use on boat bottoms is that in saltwater it rapidly precipitates into sediments and is relatively harmless. My experience with marinas is that they want to make money. The ones that let you do your own work charge for storage. If you can get the job done in a weekend it pays to do it yourself. But if it must sit in the yard for a few weeks it might be cheaper to let the marina do the job. Generally they don't charge for storage if they do the job. Don't dry sand!!! Copper can cause cancer and other problems. Wet sanding will reduce the amount that you breath,
Copper is used to control pests in agriculture. The good thing about it's use on boat bottoms is that in saltwater it rapidly precipitates into sediments and is relatively harmless. My experience with marinas is that they want to make money. The ones that let you do your own work charge for storage. If you can get the job done in a weekend it pays to do it yourself. But if it must sit in the yard for a few weeks it might be cheaper to let the marina do the job. Generally they don't charge for storage if they do the job. Don't dry sand!!! Copper can cause cancer and other problems. Wet sanding will reduce the amount that you breath,
I have been painting
...the bottom of my boat for all the years I've been sailing. My marina only requires you clean up your own mess upon completion. I spray the bottom with a water based ablative and tarp off all boats that surround me. We also spray just after dawn on dead air days when nobody else is in the area. Water based paint minimizes the impact on the environment because it doesn't use highly toxic solvents to keep the copper in suspension. We still use a respirator and Tyvec suit for complete protection. The spraying takes less than 20 minutes to complete.
...the bottom of my boat for all the years I've been sailing. My marina only requires you clean up your own mess upon completion. I spray the bottom with a water based ablative and tarp off all boats that surround me. We also spray just after dawn on dead air days when nobody else is in the area. Water based paint minimizes the impact on the environment because it doesn't use highly toxic solvents to keep the copper in suspension. We still use a respirator and Tyvec suit for complete protection. The spraying takes less than 20 minutes to complete.
Considered Spraying
But I use a roller. With a roller there are no mists to breath. You would be surprised how quickly you can roll on a bottom. My routine is to pressure wash as soon as it comes out of the water. Then take a nylon scrubing pad and a water hose to scrub lightly and then after it dries start rolling. I like to roll one coat let it dry then move the supports and apply another coat.
But I use a roller. With a roller there are no mists to breath. You would be surprised how quickly you can roll on a bottom. My routine is to pressure wash as soon as it comes out of the water. Then take a nylon scrubing pad and a water hose to scrub lightly and then after it dries start rolling. I like to roll one coat let it dry then move the supports and apply another coat.
Petit Hydrocoat
had good ratings both in Florida and Connecticut in the latest Practical Sailor tests. We rolled on two coats with a third coat at the waterline. Seemed a little thin, but dried nicely and is holding up well. Cleanup much easier than with traditional paints. Racers frequently like to spray on the bottom paint as it produces a much smoother finish. Nice but very costly in the Pacific Northwest.
had good ratings both in Florida and Connecticut in the latest Practical Sailor tests. We rolled on two coats with a third coat at the waterline. Seemed a little thin, but dried nicely and is holding up well. Cleanup much easier than with traditional paints. Racers frequently like to spray on the bottom paint as it produces a much smoother finish. Nice but very costly in the Pacific Northwest.
It only takes an hour to paint the bottom
of a thirty footer with a roller with an extension pole. I sand with a 80 grit mesh drywall sheet and rinse the pad in a bucket and rinse the boat with a hose . Clean up that stuff and get the paint out by then everything is dry and I can roll the paint. No more than three hours start to finish. No dry sanding and no worry about overspray.
of a thirty footer with a roller with an extension pole. I sand with a 80 grit mesh drywall sheet and rinse the pad in a bucket and rinse the boat with a hose . Clean up that stuff and get the paint out by then everything is dry and I can roll the paint. No more than three hours start to finish. No dry sanding and no worry about overspray.
My marina supplies a vacuum sander
The use of the sander is free but I must buy my own velcro-type disks. I can buy from the marina or elsewhere- my choice. My marina charges the same price (within 20 cents) of the price anywhere else. I do the entire bottom of my 40' with 9-10 disks. My marina allows me to do my own work and friends can help me too. They don't allow sanding without a vacuum sander, but theirs is available for sharing in the yard. If I was stripping the bottom, I would be required to have drop cloths and capture all waste and properly dispose of it. I echo the comments of previous posters- It is the marina who is making the rule of no self-painting. They are greedy. I would find another marina and then tell them why I was leaving.
The use of the sander is free but I must buy my own velcro-type disks. I can buy from the marina or elsewhere- my choice. My marina charges the same price (within 20 cents) of the price anywhere else. I do the entire bottom of my 40' with 9-10 disks. My marina allows me to do my own work and friends can help me too. They don't allow sanding without a vacuum sander, but theirs is available for sharing in the yard. If I was stripping the bottom, I would be required to have drop cloths and capture all waste and properly dispose of it. I echo the comments of previous posters- It is the marina who is making the rule of no self-painting. They are greedy. I would find another marina and then tell them why I was leaving.
tom
You are making a huge mistake if you are painting the bottom with traditional anti fouling paint and not wearing a respirator and Tyvec suit that is capable of removing the toxic solvents that the paint releases. These solvents are very easily absorbed through the skin and lungs. They can produce very harmful affects on your body from just close proximity without some sort of protection.
You are making a huge mistake if you are painting the bottom with traditional anti fouling paint and not wearing a respirator and Tyvec suit that is capable of removing the toxic solvents that the paint releases. These solvents are very easily absorbed through the skin and lungs. They can produce very harmful affects on your body from just close proximity without some sort of protection.
If you are working outside
If you are working outside with a little breeze the fumes shouldn't be a problem if you are using a roller. I have used a tyvec suit to keep the paint off. Most "respirators" don't remove fumes just some particulates. Respirators that do remove fumes are the big heavy type with a canister full of activated charcoal and they have a limited life expectancy. A supplied air respirator where a pump supplies filtered air under pressure is the best for extended use. But the bottom paint that I've used doesn't stink as bad as your average house paint. I really don't think that it's a problem outside..now if you are in an enclosed space it might be a problem.
If you are working outside with a little breeze the fumes shouldn't be a problem if you are using a roller. I have used a tyvec suit to keep the paint off. Most "respirators" don't remove fumes just some particulates. Respirators that do remove fumes are the big heavy type with a canister full of activated charcoal and they have a limited life expectancy. A supplied air respirator where a pump supplies filtered air under pressure is the best for extended use. But the bottom paint that I've used doesn't stink as bad as your average house paint. I really don't think that it's a problem outside..now if you are in an enclosed space it might be a problem.
John,
Even if there is environmentally friendly bottom paint the boat yards still won't let you paint or sand your bottom, when the DEC started this they made a mistake in the way it was written and then realized there error and rewrote it but the boat yards won't hear it cause its a money maker for them. What I was doing before I found my let you do anything you want boatyard was short hauling in August for a coule days in another yard that let you paint your bottom,he welcomed the short haul buisness and if you needed his professional services for anything else it got done right away. Also I was hauling every 3 years with 2 coats of paint,now I haul every year with 1 coat of paint.
Even if there is environmentally friendly bottom paint the boat yards still won't let you paint or sand your bottom, when the DEC started this they made a mistake in the way it was written and then realized there error and rewrote it but the boat yards won't hear it cause its a money maker for them. What I was doing before I found my let you do anything you want boatyard was short hauling in August for a coule days in another yard that let you paint your bottom,he welcomed the short haul buisness and if you needed his professional services for anything else it got done right away. Also I was hauling every 3 years with 2 coats of paint,now I haul every year with 1 coat of paint.
Major error
I can't say it strongly enough!!....DON'T do any painting without a respirator. Sure they need special filters and sure they cost money....but just what is your own health worth? Rescuers are dying as a result of the 9/11 attacks because they didn't have proper protection and they were told 'it's safe'. Well, it wasn't and now they are paying the price. A word to the wise.....
I can't say it strongly enough!!....DON'T do any painting without a respirator. Sure they need special filters and sure they cost money....but just what is your own health worth? Rescuers are dying as a result of the 9/11 attacks because they didn't have proper protection and they were told 'it's safe'. Well, it wasn't and now they are paying the price. A word to the wise.....
Alan you are Silly
There is no comparison of 911 and rolling a couple of coats of bottom paint. If paint was so dangerous home owners around the country would be falling dead. My wife and I should have died when we painted our house last year. Yes you should take reasonable precautions but get real. My uncle was a house painter for 40 years. Many if not most home owners paint their own interior rooms. Bottom paint is just paint with copper oxide in it. Don't take a bath in it and don't breath the dust and you will probably be alright.
There is no comparison of 911 and rolling a couple of coats of bottom paint. If paint was so dangerous home owners around the country would be falling dead. My wife and I should have died when we painted our house last year. Yes you should take reasonable precautions but get real. My uncle was a house painter for 40 years. Many if not most home owners paint their own interior rooms. Bottom paint is just paint with copper oxide in it. Don't take a bath in it and don't breath the dust and you will probably be alright.
Alan is actually right
The carrier solvents in antifouling are what give it it's unique toxicity, not the pigment(s) or water/oil in typical latex or oil based house paint. There is no comparison.
The carrier solvents in antifouling are what give it it's unique toxicity, not the pigment(s) or water/oil in typical latex or oil based house paint. There is no comparison.
now this is making me worry a bit
I recently sanded my entire boat bottom with little more than a dust mask, i inhaled lots of the bottom paint, i had a blue nose for a week. How long does the chemicals take to metabolize out of the system? What specific effects can they cause?
I recently sanded my entire boat bottom with little more than a dust mask, i inhaled lots of the bottom paint, i had a blue nose for a week. How long does the chemicals take to metabolize out of the system? What specific effects can they cause?
Donald
If you really want to worry, this is an excerpt from an MSDS sheet for copper. You can do a similar search for the specific paint. Sounds worse than it is - if you are concerned, a quick call to your doctor might help. Again, this is for copper; not the paint or the carrier solvent in the paint: Section 3 - Hazards Identification, Including Emergency Overview 101/102/110 COPPER/COPPER ALLOYS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Health Hazards Acute & Chronic: RESPIRATORY TRACT IRRITATION, METAL FUME FEVER, EYE IRRITATION. LEAD INTOXICATION INCLUDING KIDNEY DISEASE, ANEMIA, NERVOUS DISORDERS, REPRODUCTIVE EFFECTS, BIRTH DEFECTS & KIDNEY CANCER. COPPER FUMES CAUSES METAL FUME FEVER, SKIN/HAIR DISCOLORATION, KERATINIZATION OF HANDS/FEET SOLES, & RESPIRATORY TRACT IRRITATION. Signs & Symptoms of Overexposure: METAL FUME FEVER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE: SWEET OR METALLIC TASTE IN MOUTH, DRYNESS & IRRITATION OF THROAT, COUGH, SHORTNESS OF BREATH, CHEST PAIN, NAUSEA, VOMITING, WEAKNESS, FATIGUE, MUSCLE & JOINT PAIN, C HILLS, SWEATING & FEVER. COPPER: METALLIC TASTE IN MOUTH & NAUSEA. SEE SUPP.
If you really want to worry, this is an excerpt from an MSDS sheet for copper. You can do a similar search for the specific paint. Sounds worse than it is - if you are concerned, a quick call to your doctor might help. Again, this is for copper; not the paint or the carrier solvent in the paint: Section 3 - Hazards Identification, Including Emergency Overview 101/102/110 COPPER/COPPER ALLOYS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Health Hazards Acute & Chronic: RESPIRATORY TRACT IRRITATION, METAL FUME FEVER, EYE IRRITATION. LEAD INTOXICATION INCLUDING KIDNEY DISEASE, ANEMIA, NERVOUS DISORDERS, REPRODUCTIVE EFFECTS, BIRTH DEFECTS & KIDNEY CANCER. COPPER FUMES CAUSES METAL FUME FEVER, SKIN/HAIR DISCOLORATION, KERATINIZATION OF HANDS/FEET SOLES, & RESPIRATORY TRACT IRRITATION. Signs & Symptoms of Overexposure: METAL FUME FEVER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE: SWEET OR METALLIC TASTE IN MOUTH, DRYNESS & IRRITATION OF THROAT, COUGH, SHORTNESS OF BREATH, CHEST PAIN, NAUSEA, VOMITING, WEAKNESS, FATIGUE, MUSCLE & JOINT PAIN, C HILLS, SWEATING & FEVER. COPPER: METALLIC TASTE IN MOUTH & NAUSEA. SEE SUPP.
I second that Tom, I love doom and gloom...
...this is not 911. Anyone ever heard of common sense?
...this is not 911. Anyone ever heard of common sense?
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