After reading some posts, I decided that you all are a nice bunch. So I thought I'd hit you up for some rookie advice. I want to get into sailing. Thinking of buying something cheap (3000-5000?)in the 25' range and sail it around for a year. Is this a good approach? If so, what do I look for? I'd want to unload the boat after a short time and move to something larger (30'-ish) if the lady and I are still into it. Is getting rid of "cheaper" boats hard? Any advice would be greatly appreaciated. Thanks. Dreaming in the snow, Lance
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Good choice
There are plenty of 25s out there, notably Catalina and Hunter. A really good size for learning everything about sailing. You'll have no trouble reselling, provided Portland is a good sailboat market. May have to advertise in the Boston market briefly. I would look for good looks. If the boat is in shape, that suggests it's been taken care of. Examine the fiberglass for chalking, cracks, holes. Especially examine the hull for blisters. Might want to have a survey, but that's pretty expensive for a boat of this nature. Once you settle on two or three, go sailing with the owner to try her out. Get ready for a great lifetime experience, and be sure to let us know how you make out.
There are plenty of 25s out there, notably Catalina and Hunter. A really good size for learning everything about sailing. You'll have no trouble reselling, provided Portland is a good sailboat market. May have to advertise in the Boston market briefly. I would look for good looks. If the boat is in shape, that suggests it's been taken care of. Examine the fiberglass for chalking, cracks, holes. Especially examine the hull for blisters. Might want to have a survey, but that's pretty expensive for a boat of this nature. Once you settle on two or three, go sailing with the owner to try her out. Get ready for a great lifetime experience, and be sure to let us know how you make out.
Price
Not if the price is right! If you put a little TLC into a cheap used boat, you'll probably recoup your money back if not more. Plus you'll have gotten the fun of sailing, and learning about boats faster because of the work you've done.
Not if the price is right! If you put a little TLC into a cheap used boat, you'll probably recoup your money back if not more. Plus you'll have gotten the fun of sailing, and learning about boats faster because of the work you've done.
Age
I am not surprised to see that many of these less expensive 25's are fairly old. Do these fiberglass boats get to an age that is concerning? 1970? 1965? Thanks, Bill and Mike, for the advice.
I am not surprised to see that many of these less expensive 25's are fairly old. Do these fiberglass boats get to an age that is concerning? 1970? 1965? Thanks, Bill and Mike, for the advice.
just get one
your thinking exactly what I did last year . I purchased a 22 and within a year made a trade for a 31 , if your already thinking bigger would be better , you should consider looking for a bigger boat ,I only wish all the time I spent looking and fixing up the boat I traded would have been spent on the boat I have now!!
your thinking exactly what I did last year . I purchased a 22 and within a year made a trade for a 31 , if your already thinking bigger would be better , you should consider looking for a bigger boat ,I only wish all the time I spent looking and fixing up the boat I traded would have been spent on the boat I have now!!
really?
How much experience did you have, Jeff? I sat on a 40'er as a child and sailed a 16' hobie a fair amount as an adult. Wouldn't learning on a 30'er be too, much? Also, did you lose much $$ on your year with the 22'? Thanks!
How much experience did you have, Jeff? I sat on a 40'er as a child and sailed a 16' hobie a fair amount as an adult. Wouldn't learning on a 30'er be too, much? Also, did you lose much $$ on your year with the 22'? Thanks!
Been on both ends
i looked for a couple years and talked to a couple friends who sailed 23 footers. Had on go with me to look at the Catalina 22 I ended up purchasing. It was immaculate and included trailor, motor, 3 sails, all equipment imaginable and the owner was moving out of the country. Got it for a price in your range and sold it for the same 3 years later to buy a bigger boat. If it has a swing keel watch out for winch and cable problems.
i looked for a couple years and talked to a couple friends who sailed 23 footers. Had on go with me to look at the Catalina 22 I ended up purchasing. It was immaculate and included trailor, motor, 3 sails, all equipment imaginable and the owner was moving out of the country. Got it for a price in your range and sold it for the same 3 years later to buy a bigger boat. If it has a swing keel watch out for winch and cable problems.
glad i learned
I had sailed a 14' for a couple years some time ago and sailed with others so the learning curve wasn't bad. Having a bigger boat now i think i would stretch financially and buy a bigger one initially. i think it's just as easy, if not easier, to sail a 30' as a 22'. the difference is in entering and exiting the slip and your depth perception from the cockpit. you buy the right boat and take excellent care of it and you can sell it for close to what you paid.
I had sailed a 14' for a couple years some time ago and sailed with others so the learning curve wasn't bad. Having a bigger boat now i think i would stretch financially and buy a bigger one initially. i think it's just as easy, if not easier, to sail a 30' as a 22'. the difference is in entering and exiting the slip and your depth perception from the cockpit. you buy the right boat and take excellent care of it and you can sell it for close to what you paid.
entry
i suggest you put that money in a sailing club instead of an old boat with lots of headaches. the money won't be lost if you do like sailing.
i suggest you put that money in a sailing club instead of an old boat with lots of headaches. the money won't be lost if you do like sailing.
a good (proven) plan
Thats exactly what I did. I picked up an abused 25' Hunter (78) for very little, I put a fair bit of time and about $500 into it. Thankfully it had a good motor and sails. I learned LOTS while working on this little boat,while the systems are very simple (and cheap) it made a very good intro to boat restoration. I enjoyed this rig for a year until I sold her for a small profit. Now I'm doing the same thing with a 79 catalina 38 and man am I glad I got all that experience working on the 25. Before that boat I had only sailed Hobies and had no idea what I was getting into now one year later the 38 is looking pretty sweet and my girl and I are living on her! Go for it man!
Thats exactly what I did. I picked up an abused 25' Hunter (78) for very little, I put a fair bit of time and about $500 into it. Thankfully it had a good motor and sails. I learned LOTS while working on this little boat,while the systems are very simple (and cheap) it made a very good intro to boat restoration. I enjoyed this rig for a year until I sold her for a small profit. Now I'm doing the same thing with a 79 catalina 38 and man am I glad I got all that experience working on the 25. Before that boat I had only sailed Hobies and had no idea what I was getting into now one year later the 38 is looking pretty sweet and my girl and I are living on her! Go for it man!
elbow grease
Lance, Patrick is right on , I learned a Lot about boats and sailing in general with a smaller, older boat , if your not sure, you cant go wrong starting with a smaller older boat , but I would caution buying an old dog (someone elses problem, keep it a well kept boat) and of trailer sailing, I thought I would do that until I stepped the mast!#%! however ,there are some newer models that are suppose to be easy, for me I would only keep a boat at the dock or mooring.
Lance, Patrick is right on , I learned a Lot about boats and sailing in general with a smaller, older boat , if your not sure, you cant go wrong starting with a smaller older boat , but I would caution buying an old dog (someone elses problem, keep it a well kept boat) and of trailer sailing, I thought I would do that until I stepped the mast!#%! however ,there are some newer models that are suppose to be easy, for me I would only keep a boat at the dock or mooring.
I think it's the right way to go.
I'm thinking I'd get a 20-22 footer that I can keep on a trailer. A Capri or Catalina 22 would be perfect. They're great daysailors or racers and have a small cabin with porta-potty and galley. You can trailer it, which will open up a lot of new sailing venues for you and your wife, or if you find it inconvenient rigging the boat whenever you want to sail, you can put it in a marina.(much more convenient sailing and loafing) These boats fit into your price range nicely and have very good re-sale, probably get most of your money back especially with a trailer. By the time you both get a year of sailing fun on your 22 footer you'll have no problem moving up to a larger boat. Plus you'll have much more experience in selecting the right one. Sailing wise, the move up will be very easy. The new challenge will be learning to maneauver the much heavier vessel under power, especially in and out of the slip.
I'm thinking I'd get a 20-22 footer that I can keep on a trailer. A Capri or Catalina 22 would be perfect. They're great daysailors or racers and have a small cabin with porta-potty and galley. You can trailer it, which will open up a lot of new sailing venues for you and your wife, or if you find it inconvenient rigging the boat whenever you want to sail, you can put it in a marina.(much more convenient sailing and loafing) These boats fit into your price range nicely and have very good re-sale, probably get most of your money back especially with a trailer. By the time you both get a year of sailing fun on your 22 footer you'll have no problem moving up to a larger boat. Plus you'll have much more experience in selecting the right one. Sailing wise, the move up will be very easy. The new challenge will be learning to maneauver the much heavier vessel under power, especially in and out of the slip.
narrowing it down
Well, it sounds like most of you feel I should go with the small boat and then make the move bigger. (this'll be easier on my walet, too.) So, if I could pull a little more from you all: Trailerable or not trailerable? The coast of Maine has tons to offer, I don't think we'll get bored from Portland. My gut tells me to just put her on a mooring. However, Joe thinks trailer boats are the way to go. No offense, Joe, but does anyone else have an opinion on this?
Well, it sounds like most of you feel I should go with the small boat and then make the move bigger. (this'll be easier on my walet, too.) So, if I could pull a little more from you all: Trailerable or not trailerable? The coast of Maine has tons to offer, I don't think we'll get bored from Portland. My gut tells me to just put her on a mooring. However, Joe thinks trailer boats are the way to go. No offense, Joe, but does anyone else have an opinion on this?
Lance...just go for it...
I sailed about four times with a pal of mine on his old, beaten up Cat 25, and was hooked from the start. So, when my fiance dumped me and gave me back the ring...I sold it and bought myself a nice '82 Hunter 27. My first season was comical, as I did a lot of single-handed sailing, and was trying to adjust. Best thing I ever did though. Now, it's 11 years later, I am married, and we just purchased our first "brand new" boat (Catalina 310)...my third since my beloved "Passionata". I still see a lot of older Hunter and Catalina 27's out there, so you know they've got staying power, and you could get these boats for a song. Good luck, and above all, HAVE FUN!
I sailed about four times with a pal of mine on his old, beaten up Cat 25, and was hooked from the start. So, when my fiance dumped me and gave me back the ring...I sold it and bought myself a nice '82 Hunter 27. My first season was comical, as I did a lot of single-handed sailing, and was trying to adjust. Best thing I ever did though. Now, it's 11 years later, I am married, and we just purchased our first "brand new" boat (Catalina 310)...my third since my beloved "Passionata". I still see a lot of older Hunter and Catalina 27's out there, so you know they've got staying power, and you could get these boats for a song. Good luck, and above all, HAVE FUN!
We did it
That is what we did. Actually started with a hobie cat for about 1/2 year and would get too wet, so sold the hobie for what we paid for her and bought a Catalina 25 for a little over a year. She was a 1986 25' and got her for $5000, mostly because she needed a bath and a little work, but not much. We did put a new outboard on her ($1400) for a better piece of mind since we spent every weekend we could on her, but you can outgrow a 25 footer really fast spending weekends on it. The trick is not not put a whole pile of money into the small one, just clean her up real good, etc - elbow greese. We then traded the Catalina 25 for a 1987 Hunter 34 and got $8k on a trade-in (the dealer had it sold within a week). We wanted a 30 footer, but the 34s run about the same price. We are upgrading, fixing up, etc. on this larger one since we plan on keeping her for a while now that we know my wife and I both love it. Big boats are much more work and money. I like the idea of testing the waters in a smaller boat and learning maintenance, costs, etc. before taking the leap into a big boat and you will know if you love sailing (and fixing broken things) before wasting much money. With the smaller, older boats, it seems you can typically unload them fast and get your money back - just what I have noticed.
That is what we did. Actually started with a hobie cat for about 1/2 year and would get too wet, so sold the hobie for what we paid for her and bought a Catalina 25 for a little over a year. She was a 1986 25' and got her for $5000, mostly because she needed a bath and a little work, but not much. We did put a new outboard on her ($1400) for a better piece of mind since we spent every weekend we could on her, but you can outgrow a 25 footer really fast spending weekends on it. The trick is not not put a whole pile of money into the small one, just clean her up real good, etc - elbow greese. We then traded the Catalina 25 for a 1987 Hunter 34 and got $8k on a trade-in (the dealer had it sold within a week). We wanted a 30 footer, but the 34s run about the same price. We are upgrading, fixing up, etc. on this larger one since we plan on keeping her for a while now that we know my wife and I both love it. Big boats are much more work and money. I like the idea of testing the waters in a smaller boat and learning maintenance, costs, etc. before taking the leap into a big boat and you will know if you love sailing (and fixing broken things) before wasting much money. With the smaller, older boats, it seems you can typically unload them fast and get your money back - just what I have noticed.
entry level
lance, i hate to see you spending time and money reinventing the wheel. take it from someone who knows your area, go to a local club or two and just ask around. down easters will be glad to help.
lance, i hate to see you spending time and money reinventing the wheel. take it from someone who knows your area, go to a local club or two and just ask around. down easters will be glad to help.
Started with a Chrysler 22
I started with a C-22 two years ago. We had a ball (and some scarey times) with her. We learned quite alot about electrical systems. Late last year, we bought a 33'er. She is going to need alot of work to get her in her final best. Last Thanksgiving, we too the C-22 on a four day round trip to Appalachicola. When we got back, my wife turned to me and said, "You know, I think we ought to keep this one too." We are now a two boat family. The C-22 is on a trailer under the house and the 33 is in a slip. My advice to any new sailor is, start with a 22-25, get an older (70s model ) boat, they biult them very strong back then, and get out there on the water.
I started with a C-22 two years ago. We had a ball (and some scarey times) with her. We learned quite alot about electrical systems. Late last year, we bought a 33'er. She is going to need alot of work to get her in her final best. Last Thanksgiving, we too the C-22 on a four day round trip to Appalachicola. When we got back, my wife turned to me and said, "You know, I think we ought to keep this one too." We are now a two boat family. The C-22 is on a trailer under the house and the 33 is in a slip. My advice to any new sailor is, start with a 22-25, get an older (70s model ) boat, they biult them very strong back then, and get out there on the water.
Take a look at bigger now
Lance, Since you want to move up in a year or so check out what is popular in your local market; this will make resale easier. Trailer vs. mooring/dock: I've done both and you will sail way more often with a boat at a dock. Out of the car and 10 minutes later your sailing. You can go for an hour sail after work if you want. Do you want to sail or do mtce.? I found out that I prefer sailing, so the cosmetics on the boat sometimes don't get the attention needed. Plus in our northern climates the sailing season is also the only season when you can do a lot of mtce. jobs. Keep this in mind when you consider the boat's condition. Are you buying a boat to flip for a profit after working on it, or do you want to go sailing? Regarding your plans to upgrade. Are you going to have to sell first to have the cash to buy? Finding a good 30'-ish may take some time and travel and you won't have a boat to sail on while looking. Why not look for a 27-28' now, with the plan to keep it for a few years. That's what I did. I have no doubt that jumping to a 30-35' will be no problem (handling wise) after you get a few years on a 28 footer. Kevin
Lance, Since you want to move up in a year or so check out what is popular in your local market; this will make resale easier. Trailer vs. mooring/dock: I've done both and you will sail way more often with a boat at a dock. Out of the car and 10 minutes later your sailing. You can go for an hour sail after work if you want. Do you want to sail or do mtce.? I found out that I prefer sailing, so the cosmetics on the boat sometimes don't get the attention needed. Plus in our northern climates the sailing season is also the only season when you can do a lot of mtce. jobs. Keep this in mind when you consider the boat's condition. Are you buying a boat to flip for a profit after working on it, or do you want to go sailing? Regarding your plans to upgrade. Are you going to have to sell first to have the cash to buy? Finding a good 30'-ish may take some time and travel and you won't have a boat to sail on while looking. Why not look for a 27-28' now, with the plan to keep it for a few years. That's what I did. I have no doubt that jumping to a 30-35' will be no problem (handling wise) after you get a few years on a 28 footer. Kevin
sailing vs owning
I've been watching this thread with interest, since I went through the same thing five years ago. The biggest lesson I learned is that there is a vast gulf between SAILING a boat and OWNING a boat. I didn't have much of a budget, so I bought an old O'Day 22 at an estate sail. Every time I turned around, I had to research something I didn't know and do something I didn't know how to do, and I sure didn't enjoy that first year. How do you register a boat? What's barrier coat and why do I need it? What kind of bottom paint and how do I put it on? Where do you buy a new shroud for a boat no longer in production? What kind of safety equipment do I need? How do you put up a mast? Where do you buy _____________________ ? Etc Etc I could easily expand this list by 20 or 30 items. I wish now that I had purchased a very well equipped and maintained boat that I could enjoy sailing in, and ease into the boat ownership and boat maintenance thing. 5 or 6k would have put me into a good C22 in great shape, and let me enjoy/learn at a slower pace. And it would have great resale value in a couple years. Think of it like buying a house. Whatever you buy has to look great, be in great shape, and in the right location so you can sell easily later on. Same with a boat. The other guys are right ... you almost certainly will want to sell, particularly with the kind of cruising ground at your front door! Welcome to the greatest sport in the world! Tom MOnroe Carlyle Lake
I've been watching this thread with interest, since I went through the same thing five years ago. The biggest lesson I learned is that there is a vast gulf between SAILING a boat and OWNING a boat. I didn't have much of a budget, so I bought an old O'Day 22 at an estate sail. Every time I turned around, I had to research something I didn't know and do something I didn't know how to do, and I sure didn't enjoy that first year. How do you register a boat? What's barrier coat and why do I need it? What kind of bottom paint and how do I put it on? Where do you buy a new shroud for a boat no longer in production? What kind of safety equipment do I need? How do you put up a mast? Where do you buy _____________________ ? Etc Etc I could easily expand this list by 20 or 30 items. I wish now that I had purchased a very well equipped and maintained boat that I could enjoy sailing in, and ease into the boat ownership and boat maintenance thing. 5 or 6k would have put me into a good C22 in great shape, and let me enjoy/learn at a slower pace. And it would have great resale value in a couple years. Think of it like buying a house. Whatever you buy has to look great, be in great shape, and in the right location so you can sell easily later on. Same with a boat. The other guys are right ... you almost certainly will want to sell, particularly with the kind of cruising ground at your front door! Welcome to the greatest sport in the world! Tom MOnroe Carlyle Lake
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