Can anyone answer this question: I was given an ensign for Christmas, like the stars and Stripes but with a fouled anchor in a circle of 13 stars in the blue field. Which should be flown, the Stars and Stripes or this ensign? I would fly it from the starboard backstay, I guess, since there is no jackstaff. Many thanks and happy New Year to all.
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Flag etiquette
From the attached link: "Boats should fly the National Flag. Most pleasure boats in US waters have a choice of 2. -The yacht ensign, with its fouled anchor over a circle of 13 stars, the "Betsy Ross" flag. Originally restricted to documented vessels only, it is now commonly flown on recreational boats of all types and sizes instead of the National Flag (see picture). -The 50-star flag "Old Glory" you are familiar with. The appropriate time to fly the ensign is from sunrise to sunset, except when racing. However, whenever a boat is taken into international or foreign waters, the 50-star U.S. ensign is the proper flag to fly and the yacht ensign cannot to be displayed. In other words, if you own a US boat in the British Virgin Islands, you should not fly the Ensign, but the National Flag. Boats today fly the ensign from the stern, which provides the best visibility, but it can also be flown from the leech of the most aftersail. When flown from the stern, it should be on a staff (pole) that is sufficiently long and angled, and that is offset to one side (traditionally the starboard side), so the flag flies clear of engine exhaust and rigging."
From the attached link: "Boats should fly the National Flag. Most pleasure boats in US waters have a choice of 2. -The yacht ensign, with its fouled anchor over a circle of 13 stars, the "Betsy Ross" flag. Originally restricted to documented vessels only, it is now commonly flown on recreational boats of all types and sizes instead of the National Flag (see picture). -The 50-star flag "Old Glory" you are familiar with. The appropriate time to fly the ensign is from sunrise to sunset, except when racing. However, whenever a boat is taken into international or foreign waters, the 50-star U.S. ensign is the proper flag to fly and the yacht ensign cannot to be displayed. In other words, if you own a US boat in the British Virgin Islands, you should not fly the Ensign, but the National Flag. Boats today fly the ensign from the stern, which provides the best visibility, but it can also be flown from the leech of the most aftersail. When flown from the stern, it should be on a staff (pole) that is sufficiently long and angled, and that is offset to one side (traditionally the starboard side), so the flag flies clear of engine exhaust and rigging."
One more thing...the proper size for your boat
The "fly" (length) of the yacht ensign or the national ensign should be 1" to each 1' of the boat's LOA...and the size is always rounded up, not down, to nearest match. Iow, if your boat is 31' the ensign should be 36", not 30". So the correct size for your 23' boat is 18 x 24.
The "fly" (length) of the yacht ensign or the national ensign should be 1" to each 1' of the boat's LOA...and the size is always rounded up, not down, to nearest match. Iow, if your boat is 31' the ensign should be 36", not 30". So the correct size for your 23' boat is 18 x 24.
Run out the sweeps
My cruising grounds is limited to the Potomac River and Chesepeake Bay. I fly the Christoper Moody version of the Jolly Roger! Fits my boat!
My cruising grounds is limited to the Potomac River and Chesepeake Bay. I fly the Christoper Moody version of the Jolly Roger! Fits my boat!
So in Summary…
The Yacht Ensign (13 stars, fouled anchor) looks very shippy, and many skippers fly it, but unless the vessel is documented AND remains in home waters, the national flag (50 stars) is the correct flag to fly. I think we'll divide into two camps: those who want to follow tradition and do things "right," and those who see tradition as not at all binding, and will choose what is "right" based on personal preference. I usually enjoy following tradition, within reason, so that puts me in the first camp. Bad Obsession seems to be firmly in the second camp.
But if he tries to board me, I'll hoist my Thomas Tew, & repel him.
The Yacht Ensign (13 stars, fouled anchor) looks very shippy, and many skippers fly it, but unless the vessel is documented AND remains in home waters, the national flag (50 stars) is the correct flag to fly. I think we'll divide into two camps: those who want to follow tradition and do things "right," and those who see tradition as not at all binding, and will choose what is "right" based on personal preference. I usually enjoy following tradition, within reason, so that puts me in the first camp. Bad Obsession seems to be firmly in the second camp.
But if he tries to board me, I'll hoist my Thomas Tew, & repel him.Yacht ensign not restricted to documented vessels
My understanding is that in 1995 the Coast Guard granted to all recreational vessels the right to fly the yacht ensign in US waters, not just documented vessels. Still, my boat is documented and I like to use the yacht ensign to keep the tradition alive. It's a unique and colorful element of our pastime...
My understanding is that in 1995 the Coast Guard granted to all recreational vessels the right to fly the yacht ensign in US waters, not just documented vessels. Still, my boat is documented and I like to use the yacht ensign to keep the tradition alive. It's a unique and colorful element of our pastime...
So..............being English then
means that I cannot fly the Red Ensign as used by my compatriots? (The plain red flag with the Union Flag - Union Jack not the Rebel Flag guys...-in the top left hand corner) without being in trouble hunh?
means that I cannot fly the Red Ensign as used by my compatriots? (The plain red flag with the Union Flag - Union Jack not the Rebel Flag guys...-in the top left hand corner) without being in trouble hunh?
Oy! Hodgey!
You can certainly fly the Red Ensign, but then you would also have to fly the Stars and Stripes at the starbaord spreader as a courtesy flag...after you've cleared in at Port Canaveral of course. I sail out of Kennedy Point so I'll be looking out for you on the Indian River. Cheers. Peter H23 "Raven"
You can certainly fly the Red Ensign, but then you would also have to fly the Stars and Stripes at the starbaord spreader as a courtesy flag...after you've cleared in at Port Canaveral of course.
I sail out of Kennedy Point so I'll be looking out for you on the Indian River. Cheers. Peter H23 "Raven"Hodgey (Neil) is a fellow expat...
Many thanks to all who responded. Peggie, your point is taken, as too many fly flags that are way too big. Who'd of thought that my query would start such a discussion? Hodgey, I am also a Brit...now, I believe that we can (must) fly either the US ensign or the Stars and Stripes at the stern starboard as the boat is registered over here, but the Red duster can also be flown on the starboard spreader to indicate the nationality of the owner.
Many thanks to all who responded. Peggie, your point is taken, as too many fly flags that are way too big. Who'd of thought that my query would start such a discussion? Hodgey, I am also a Brit...now, I believe that we can (must) fly either the US ensign or the Stars and Stripes at the stern starboard as the boat is registered over here, but the Red duster can also be flown on the starboard spreader to indicate the nationality of the owner.
check this site out
i still fly a 48 star for the holidays, no one has ever said a word about it. fairwinds mike
i still fly a 48 star for the holidays, no one has ever said a word about it. fairwinds mike
A quote says best
As in the words of a song: "The signal was made for the grand fleet to follow. We turned her about about with those dogs at our feet. We stood by our gunner, we ran up our ROGER. And sailed out far ahead of the nobelest of fleets."
As in the words of a song: "The signal was made for the grand fleet to follow. We turned her about about with those dogs at our feet. We stood by our gunner, we ran up our ROGER. And sailed out far ahead of the nobelest of fleets."
I was Wrong
You're right, Rich: the Yacht Ensign is now a recognized, co-equal substitute for Old Glory, whether the vessel is documented or not (at least, if the info. on this site can be trusted: it appears to be well-documented). Customs change, often because of popular use.
You're right, Rich: the Yacht Ensign is now a recognized, co-equal substitute for Old Glory, whether the vessel is documented or not (at least, if the info. on this site can be trusted: it appears to be well-documented). Customs change, often because of popular use.
From another boating site...
After asking this same question on another boating site, I found this answer from Walt from the finger lakes in NY. The term "yacht ensign" is not entirely correct. About a hundred fifty years ago Congress authorized the Secretary of the Treasury to promulgate a signal to be displayed by registered yachts entering or leaving port to show that they were not required to clear at the customs house. The design he published, so well illustrated for us, noticeably resembles the United States national flag, and people began to use it as a yacht ensign, although the law does not authorize this. The United States government resisted this trend, but eventually yielded to the extent of announcing that it would regard a vessel flying the yacht signal in the place of the ensign as being under the protection of the Stars and Stripes, even though technically that's not it. They have made repeated efforts to emphasize that the Stars and Stripes is our only national flag, and that the yacht signal should at least never be worn outside of U.S. waters.
After asking this same question on another boating site, I found this answer from Walt from the finger lakes in NY. The term "yacht ensign" is not entirely correct. About a hundred fifty years ago Congress authorized the Secretary of the Treasury to promulgate a signal to be displayed by registered yachts entering or leaving port to show that they were not required to clear at the customs house. The design he published, so well illustrated for us, noticeably resembles the United States national flag, and people began to use it as a yacht ensign, although the law does not authorize this. The United States government resisted this trend, but eventually yielded to the extent of announcing that it would regard a vessel flying the yacht signal in the place of the ensign as being under the protection of the Stars and Stripes, even though technically that's not it. They have made repeated efforts to emphasize that the Stars and Stripes is our only national flag, and that the yacht signal should at least never be worn outside of U.S. waters.
Here's some real information
These discussions tend to get too much hearsay mixed in with the facts, so here's some better specifics from a web site on flags:
These discussions tend to get too much hearsay mixed in with the facts, so here's some better specifics from a web site on flags:
A little more info and fun on the REAL reason b
behind the yacht ensign and the New York Yacht club - (basically a way for the elite to make sure they avoid taxes) I find it funny that you all are so entrenched in "so called tradition" that was born out of the rich dodging taxes Rich was starting on the right track. But as they say "here is the rest of the story" I give you the REAL reason for the "Yacht Ensign" http://nyyc.org/popup.cfm?content=viewthenews&thenewsid=231
behind the yacht ensign and the New York Yacht club - (basically a way for the elite to make sure they avoid taxes) I find it funny that you all are so entrenched in "so called tradition" that was born out of the rich dodging taxes Rich was starting on the right track. But as they say "here is the rest of the story" I give you the REAL reason for the "Yacht Ensign" http://nyyc.org/popup.cfm?content=viewthenews&thenewsid=231
Read it again ...
The link didn't work for me, so here is the text that Tom referred to: --- Prior to the enactment of income tax laws in the early twentieth century, the federal government obtained most of its operating funds from the collection of tariffs and customs duties levied on foreign goods entering American harbors. All vessels were subject to inspection, including private yachts. As the popularity of yachting increased, the burden of customs inspections became tiresome and unnecessary. In 1847, Commodore Stevens proposed to the Secretary of the Treasury that private yachts not engaged in trade or commerce be exempt from inspection. The Secretary, fully aware of the manpower required to inspect each and every yacht entering a port, agreed to propose legislation that would allow the Treasury Department to license yachts and let such yachts carry a signal of the form, size and colors prescribed by the Secretary of the Navy. At the Secretary of the Navys request, the New York Yacht Club recommended in January 1849, "The American Ensign with the addition of a foul anchor in the union be adopted...." Thus, the American yachtensign was created. --- How you get "the rich dodging taxes" from this is beyond me. It sounds like the NYYC saved the government money *and* paid a fee to do it. The inspections cost the government money and collected no tariffs or duties (since the yachts were not importing anything). To avoid the hassle of wasting their time and the governments money, the boats that flew the Yacht Ensign *PAID* a license fee to avoid wasting time getting inspected. Whats up Tom? Did the NYYC snub you in some way?
The link didn't work for me, so here is the text that Tom referred to: --- Prior to the enactment of income tax laws in the early twentieth century, the federal government obtained most of its operating funds from the collection of tariffs and customs duties levied on foreign goods entering American harbors. All vessels were subject to inspection, including private yachts. As the popularity of yachting increased, the burden of customs inspections became tiresome and unnecessary. In 1847, Commodore Stevens proposed to the Secretary of the Treasury that private yachts not engaged in trade or commerce be exempt from inspection. The Secretary, fully aware of the manpower required to inspect each and every yacht entering a port, agreed to propose legislation that would allow the Treasury Department to license yachts and let such yachts carry a signal of the form, size and colors prescribed by the Secretary of the Navy. At the Secretary of the Navys request, the New York Yacht Club recommended in January 1849, "The American Ensign with the addition of a foul anchor in the union be adopted...." Thus, the American yachtensign was created. --- How you get "the rich dodging taxes" from this is beyond me. It sounds like the NYYC saved the government money *and* paid a fee to do it. The inspections cost the government money and collected no tariffs or duties (since the yachts were not importing anything). To avoid the hassle of wasting their time and the governments money, the boats that flew the Yacht Ensign *PAID* a license fee to avoid wasting time getting inspected. Whats up Tom? Did the NYYC snub you in some way?
Ok I was a little harsh on the "Dodging Taxes"
but as was explained the "Yacht Ensign" sole purpose was to recognize "yachts" vs working vessels Don't know why the link didn't work? Try here http://nyyc.org/index.cfm?menu=36# and then click on the link that says "Founding of NYYC" on the right. A pop up will occur and then at that site a menu on the right will have "The Yachting Ensign" click on that and it will bring you to the short story Anyway I wonder how much thier so called fee's were ? Probably not much, but as JP Morgan says "If you have to ask the price, The you can't afford it"
but as was explained the "Yacht Ensign" sole purpose was to recognize "yachts" vs working vessels Don't know why the link didn't work? Try here http://nyyc.org/index.cfm?menu=36# and then click on the link that says "Founding of NYYC" on the right. A pop up will occur and then at that site a menu on the right will have "The Yachting Ensign" click on that and it will bring you to the short story Anyway I wonder how much thier so called fee's were ? Probably not much, but as JP Morgan says "If you have to ask the price, The you can't afford it"
What next, bumper stickers?
Well, traditions can take us pretty far afield. Some of those inland counties in Virginia might have a pretty strong attachment to the Stars and Bars or the Confederate battle flag in honor of their having "relinquished" their star on the Betsy Ross flag; and do West Virginians look at themselves as Virginians in relation to the Betsy Ross flag? Do they fly the Bourbon lillies up on the Great Lakes? What next, bumper stickers on the transom? As a practical matter you can probably fly Jolly Roger all day long in US territorial waters if it suits you (say, to honor family tradition if you come from a long line of lawyers or tax collectors) but don't mess around when you get out to sea...
Well, traditions can take us pretty far afield. Some of those inland counties in Virginia might have a pretty strong attachment to the Stars and Bars or the Confederate battle flag in honor of their having "relinquished" their star on the Betsy Ross flag; and do West Virginians look at themselves as Virginians in relation to the Betsy Ross flag? Do they fly the Bourbon lillies up on the Great Lakes? What next, bumper stickers on the transom? As a practical matter you can probably fly Jolly Roger all day long in US territorial waters if it suits you (say, to honor family tradition if you come from a long line of lawyers or tax collectors) but don't mess around when you get out to sea...
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