This is very true. There are few resources that teach and tell about throttling with the mainsail in tight quarters, docking, or anchoring, but it can be/has been done. The majority of this engineless sailing is involuntary instences when the engine won't start, and we are left with experience only to learn these very valuable skills.
Engineless Sailing
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I have my sails ready but yeah, I can imagine it. Throw the anchor, get your sails up, and sail off of the anchor. A lot of people get themselves in trouble because they do not use their anchor when they need it as a safety item. Doing the Chinese fire drill on a sailboat is rarely necessary.
I have sailed in and out of my slip many times but only at times when there was little trafic to avoid. It would be nice to be a purest like Larry & Lin Pardey but not prudent. However we should all try to develop the skills needed to survive without an engine because we have almost all lost our engine at the worst possable time and those who don't have the skill have to wait for a tow or rescue!!
Is this a serious question?
A) when sailing in or out of a marina or port, the largest vessel is the stand on vessel ("constrained by draft or maneuverability") whether YOU are under sail or not, PERIOD.
B) most marinas will not allow you to sail in or out, especially if it is a crowded, busy one.
C) I'm not sure you can even get insurance on an unpowered vessel these days.
D) If you sail into a crowded anchorage where I'm anchored, I will think you a fool, not respect your sailing skills. Prudently, you must anchor outside all the other boats, which puts you farther from shore; does your dink have power or do you row?
E) What would you do if you were dragging through a crowded anchorage in a 40 knot squall without a motor? How would you even get your anchor up to get underway?
If you've sailed enough, you've HAD to sail into somewhere you wish you didn't have to, hopefully only once.
We sail off the anchor or mooring almost always (when the bareboaters don't anchor too close), but the engine is always running unless there are no boats around us. We sail up to the anchorage, but power the last few hundred feet or so.
I know that Nikki & I are capable of sailing this boat anywhere, in almost any conditions, but we are conservative sailors & would NEVER think of doing anything which might lead us to damage someone elses boat.
Yes, they are noisy, dirty & somewhat expensive to operate & maintain, but they are also the cheapest & most convenient insurance you can have on a small vessel.
F) What's the point in an unpowered cruising sailboat today?
A) when sailing in or out of a marina or port, the largest vessel is the stand on vessel ("constrained by draft or maneuverability") whether YOU are under sail or not, PERIOD.
B) most marinas will not allow you to sail in or out, especially if it is a crowded, busy one.
C) I'm not sure you can even get insurance on an unpowered vessel these days.
D) If you sail into a crowded anchorage where I'm anchored, I will think you a fool, not respect your sailing skills. Prudently, you must anchor outside all the other boats, which puts you farther from shore; does your dink have power or do you row?
E) What would you do if you were dragging through a crowded anchorage in a 40 knot squall without a motor? How would you even get your anchor up to get underway?
If you've sailed enough, you've HAD to sail into somewhere you wish you didn't have to, hopefully only once.
We sail off the anchor or mooring almost always (when the bareboaters don't anchor too close), but the engine is always running unless there are no boats around us. We sail up to the anchorage, but power the last few hundred feet or so.
I know that Nikki & I are capable of sailing this boat anywhere, in almost any conditions, but we are conservative sailors & would NEVER think of doing anything which might lead us to damage someone elses boat.
Yes, they are noisy, dirty & somewhat expensive to operate & maintain, but they are also the cheapest & most convenient insurance you can have on a small vessel.
F) What's the point in an unpowered cruising sailboat today?
1) What is the difference between a jet ski and a vacum sweeper?
The location of the dirt bag.
2) There once was a young man named Jay,
Who thought he'd try sailing the Bay.
The wind, it did blow, for just half a day.
So young Jay is still out there today.
3) Great thread, I apologize for using my iron jib, I am lazy, and my harbor crowded.
The location of the dirt bag.
2) There once was a young man named Jay,
Who thought he'd try sailing the Bay.
The wind, it did blow, for just half a day.
So young Jay is still out there today.
3) Great thread, I apologize for using my iron jib, I am lazy, and my harbor crowded.
I sail out of Kemah Texas. It might be a quarter/half mile east to get to the bay,and a quarter/half mile west to get in Clear Lake. Either way it's a channel with heavy traffic.
The marinas everywhere.
The local J24 racers seem to have an aversion to using their motors. I guess they feel proud that they can sail in and out. But tacking in that channel, and in everyone else's way just for the fun of it is just disrespectful minimum, and could cause accidents.
It just pisses me off to have them constantly crossing my bow because they're too good to put the motor in. They might be highly skilled but the channel isn't the place to show off.
The marinas everywhere.
The local J24 racers seem to have an aversion to using their motors. I guess they feel proud that they can sail in and out. But tacking in that channel, and in everyone else's way just for the fun of it is just disrespectful minimum, and could cause accidents.
It just pisses me off to have them constantly crossing my bow because they're too good to put the motor in. They might be highly skilled but the channel isn't the place to show off.
Doehunter.. racers think "weight".. some of those "engines" have so much of the internals removed that they cannot run.. yes that is illegal since the motor must have a minimum weight.. Yes, that is a pain to deal with those guys .. I have been in and out of that channel many times.. we always tried to avoid the time when the racing herd was going through..
Yeah, you have that right. Two possible reactions on losing an engine on a lee shore:
* Run forward, drop the anchor. I've done it when the engine died, just as a thunderstorm struck, 100 yards off a lee shore (is that a trifecta?). Easy peasy, anchor down in barely a boat length.
or
* Run forward, grab the halyard, hook it to the main, undo the sail stops, turn into the wind (wait, is the engine still running for that?), raise the sail, realize that you really can't beat off a lee shore with just the main, run back, unroll the jib, you get the idea. (oh, and in that scenario above, my destination was out a zig-zagging, narrrow channel, dead to weather, so if I had raised sails I wouldn't have been able to proceed anyway).
Oh, and while I share a sailor's general contempt for the idiots who own power boats, many of them go out every single day with only a single prop (not all are twin screw), many cross oceans on a single engine, and very few are found floundering on a lee shore wishing they had sails.
Harry
* Run forward, drop the anchor. I've done it when the engine died, just as a thunderstorm struck, 100 yards off a lee shore (is that a trifecta?). Easy peasy, anchor down in barely a boat length.
or
* Run forward, grab the halyard, hook it to the main, undo the sail stops, turn into the wind (wait, is the engine still running for that?), raise the sail, realize that you really can't beat off a lee shore with just the main, run back, unroll the jib, you get the idea. (oh, and in that scenario above, my destination was out a zig-zagging, narrrow channel, dead to weather, so if I had raised sails I wouldn't have been able to proceed anyway).
Oh, and while I share a sailor's general contempt for the idiots who own power boats, many of them go out every single day with only a single prop (not all are twin screw), many cross oceans on a single engine, and very few are found floundering on a lee shore wishing they had sails.
Harry
getting so worked up............
It seems every time this conversation gets started it ends with such strong opinions for one side or the other. Isn't it most likely that we are swayed in our feeling about this by the waters and marinas that we sail in. Both San Diego and Dana Point have people who sail into their slips and no one seems to get up in arms about it.... so those who can do, and those who can't don't. We finish our beer can races up the long channel in Dana Point and I am sure some under power just hate that, but we all seem to work it out.
Seems silly to try to make a blanket statement when we all are in very different circumstances. Working on perfecting our own sailing skills under all conditions seems about the best we can do.
It seems every time this conversation gets started it ends with such strong opinions for one side or the other. Isn't it most likely that we are swayed in our feeling about this by the waters and marinas that we sail in. Both San Diego and Dana Point have people who sail into their slips and no one seems to get up in arms about it.... so those who can do, and those who can't don't. We finish our beer can races up the long channel in Dana Point and I am sure some under power just hate that, but we all seem to work it out.
Seems silly to try to make a blanket statement when we all are in very different circumstances. Working on perfecting our own sailing skills under all conditions seems about the best we can do.
But can you leave the anchorage the same way? That only works if there is wind. I've been out on Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries with NO wind but plenty of current onto shore or shoal.
I see the purists blogging about never needing an engine, because they can almost always get a tow into a harbor, from a passing fishing boat. Makes me wonder if the fishing boat has an engine?
The channel into Deltaville where I keep my boat is over a mile long, 9 feet at low tide ,but only a hundred feet wide. I have sailed in before, but the engine was running. A passing speed boat, or a hard puff can put you right up into a shoal. But then again, that's why TowBoatUS is so successful.
If there is no wind you wait. If you can't wait, you have an engine. It is that simple.
I've had professional skydivers do the same thing to me on final approach. Crazy cowboys that we are, we do have to have some rules in tighter quarters.
Thankfully, no one got hurt.
Yet.
Well said. I think that not having a motor would make more work of sailing by increasing the number of sail changes, but I think it tolerable. That keeps the allure of it. Being challenged, engine or not, is what keeps us coming back. As can be seen throughout the thread, there are many circumstances in which motors are needed, by regulation or otherwise. I still think that after many years of getting to know the boat and its sailing character, one could get by without an engine. One could store extra food and/or water in that space (I especially like the Buffet story), and possibly afford a tow once in a while. But that may be a sacrifice worth making. Thanks to everyone for their valuable input.
T.
When I learned to sail, and my parents first let me and my friends take the boat out, we'd never start the engine. When navigating the channel in the reach direction this was fairly mundane, but thinking back to what we subjected the other boaters and fisherman to who were under power and moving with purpose as we tacked in the upwind direction in the narrow parts of the channel/harbor, we were total idiots.
Also of note is the fact that if you are going to sail a passage virtually anywhere in the world , you will have to travel in or at least cross a commercial shipping lane from time to time, and navigate waters that are being commercially fished. The navigational rules in these areas can put a small sailing vessel that cannot move in the direction necessary to give way to stand on shipping lane traffic in peril.
Stupid question- you need a motor, period.
Also of note is the fact that if you are going to sail a passage virtually anywhere in the world , you will have to travel in or at least cross a commercial shipping lane from time to time, and navigate waters that are being commercially fished. The navigational rules in these areas can put a small sailing vessel that cannot move in the direction necessary to give way to stand on shipping lane traffic in peril.
Stupid question- you need a motor, period.
No motor? No way!
I am a novice. I started 5 years ago in Corpus Christi, Tx. There, you don't need a motor, ever. In my ignorance I would have said, "No, a motor is for sisssies". 3 years ago I moved to NY for work. Here, you get dead calms. I don't care how good a sailor you are, you aren't going anywhere without a little puff, even in my little 25.5. As much as I try to be a purist, I have had to fire the 9.9 a few times, even on Erie, believe it or not.
I am a novice. I started 5 years ago in Corpus Christi, Tx. There, you don't need a motor, ever. In my ignorance I would have said, "No, a motor is for sisssies". 3 years ago I moved to NY for work. Here, you get dead calms. I don't care how good a sailor you are, you aren't going anywhere without a little puff, even in my little 25.5. As much as I try to be a purist, I have had to fire the 9.9 a few times, even on Erie, believe it or not.
There is a gentleman who keeps a 28 footer here that sails with no motor... he carries a pair of sweeps (long oars) for propulsion in and out of the basin. He stands at the helm, facing forward while he rows... No mechanical failures, never runs out of fuel..... he may get tired though... heh, heh.
None of the J 24's in the Mission Bay Acquatic Center's fleet have motors. It's a sailing school! They sail them off the mooring ball, sail them up to the boarding dock, load up and sail them off the dock, through the bay under the bridge out the channel to the ocean.
The sailing school also requires that every student intentionally capsize the various boats they are learning to sail..... except the keel boats, of course.... so they can understand how to get them back up....
None of the J 24's in the Mission Bay Acquatic Center's fleet have motors. It's a sailing school! They sail them off the mooring ball, sail them up to the boarding dock, load up and sail them off the dock, through the bay under the bridge out the channel to the ocean.
The sailing school also requires that every student intentionally capsize the various boats they are learning to sail..... except the keel boats, of course.... so they can understand how to get them back up....
Depends on your mooring and how much time you have. I'm 2 miles up a river with a narrow channel. Some days I can sail all the way in and out, but most days - no way. If I had an 18' daysailer where draft wasn't a concern, then sure, no motor. If draft is a concern near your mooring, you must have an engine.
Growing up on a farm, I can relate to the last statement. Maybe engines are more necessary to a daysailor, than to a distance cruiser possibly? I think long distance sailing may separate this into another issue all together. I also would think an oar (sculling or otherwise) would be necessary as well to maintain steerage in light winds, or to help through a shipping lane. If a skipper knows his boat well and knows her sailing/manuvering characteristics, then I think the engine may be a convenience; which may be gone without. Thanks for commenting.
It depends, period.
Uh, nope, nope, and nope. Not a stupid question. It depends on the sailor, the boat, and the waters. Where I sail, there is next to no other traffic, and never any shipping traffic. Most of my sailing for decades was on boats without motors. If the wind died, we sculled with the rudder, or dropped an anchor.
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