Engine woes

[MLampner]

In a post on the Hunter forum about a possible transmission problem, I have told my tale of woe, so I won't repeat it here. My boat is a 1977 Hunter 30, similar to the Catalina of that era in beam and draw. I think my venerable YSB 12 and the transmission may have reached a point where repowering needs to be considered.

I appear to have four options:

Repower with a new diesel, or a sound newer used diesel.
Possibly have the existing power plant rebuilt.
Scrap the inboard and go with an outboard.
Consider an electric drive system.

Unfortunatley, money is an object. I love Islander and am fairly sure she will be my second and last boat but she cost me $6K and even with the improvements if she had a new engine I might get 11 or 12K in the current market. Repowering with a new diesel seems out of the question local price seems to be about 12K as turn key and assuming I could be of some help in the process, it isn't likely to save me all that much.

Rebuilding the existing engine, possible what it would cost I hope someone here might have an idea. Problem is it will still be an underpowered boat even if we could get it back to factory spec for the engine, which i doubt is possible. Anyone have any experience with this?

Go to an outboard. I know with some smart shopping and perhaps some sweat I can accomplish this for under 4K and end up with a 15 to 20 hp engine. Question is how will the boat handle, do I need to/should I pull the old engine out, if I do do I need to add something to make up for the lsot weight to keep it trimmed right. Do I pull the shaft and seal its exit?

Go electric, cost may not be much less than a new diesel, could save something by doing much or all of the work, limitations are run time under power, pluses very quiet and very clean. My wife hates the smell of the diesel etc.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated.

 

[KD3PC]

ML

you have reached the awful place of tough decisions. I don't think you will get an "electric" option that will meet your budget or needs - that technology is still not quite ready for prime time, nor a new engine - unless you do the install yourself, and unless you have the skills it would not be a pretty project, as it would require some specific knowledge, time and tools.

Although the outboard sounds better, it too is fraught with issues. Mounting an outboard plate will be tough, and steering tougher yet, then there is the issue of gasoline. In a time where bigger boats are switching to diesel you will be going the other way. With an inboard tank, required safety features will approach install prices, to do it correctly. Cockpit or transom storage will not be easy either. And you may never sell her after this type of surgery.

Without further details a comprehensive rebuild with little machine work (that would require removing the block), could easily approach the 40-50% of a repower in most cases. That with you doing the work. Rebuild using a shop is likely real close to repowering $$.

As bad as your engine is, most diesels are pretty solid and it may just need a repair. SO, unless it puked parts...I would start there..

All the best

 

[MLampner]

Yup it is a tough one

You've hit the nail on the head, its a rough decision. My guess is the engine is rebuildable, my understanding is its a sleeved block so so long as parts are available it can be done. It will turn, with the hand crank, though I never have been able to figure how to get it spinning fast enough to fire and not lose an arm in the process. The compression release is nearly impossible to press without getting one arm in front of the other.

Of course the problem is even if I can get it rebuilt I don't know how long it will strand me on the hard or afloat without it. I did track down a remanufactured Yanmar 2GM which I know was used later in the run to replace the YS series engines, but how it lines up is still another question to be answered.

Unfortunately while I am reasonably handy and if I were retired I might tackle the rebuild myself getting it done while working is not worth contemplating so need to continue to work through thoughts. Will be calling my diesel mechanic Monday AM for his input.

More thoughts and comments appreciated.

While I know the name on your boat like mine is one that is fairly common (mine is Islander) wonder if our paths have crossed, I have met people who have sailed with and against a Compass Rose on the central and lower bay and I think it may well have been a Hunter 42. Do you know a Max Munger, Bob Starbird or John Villiani by any chance?

 

[Steve Dion]

I would need to agree about the new engine and electric (really does not make sense on any boat to me).

A fellow sailor in our harbor had his rebuilt last year and re-proped boat. Much stronger engine and I think the bill for the rebuild was about $2500. You may be able to remove the engine yourself and save some $$ too.

 

[MLampner]

It appears that a rebuild is where I am heading assuming the engine isn't toast. Think I have learned the source of the oil, a friend had the boat out last weekend and based on what he said when I told him about my trip it appears he may have overfilled the crankcase, assume if he did what's in the sump got blown out the breather tube.

Still leaves me with the bad ring gear and if its got to come out to fix that may as well get it all done at one time. Have found a remanufactured 2GM15 which might be the other option need to find out what the rebuild vs the repower will cost.

 

[CalebD]

"Problem is it will still be an underpowered boat even if we could get it back to factory spec for the engine, which i doubt is possible. Anyone have any experience with this?"

So pull the YSB12 and see if it can be rebuilt and/or sold. Use the money from selling your old engine towards buying a re-power for your boat with more HP. Price a new Beta (marinized Kubota) engine as a ball park figure for buying a brand new engine. Then get prices for used working engines in the HP range you would like. If the difference in purchase price (less installation costs) is not that much then get a new engine that will actually add something to your resale value (when that day finally comes). You might be able to find a new Beta engine that is a so called 'drop in' replacement for your YSB12 or you might find an appropriate size YSM engine that would fit your needs (more HP of engine will likely require a new prop as well). I know you would likely prefer to stick with the Devil you think you know; namely a Yanmar diesel.
Putting an outboard on your transom will not add any resale value to your boat; more likely the opposite.

There is one option you did not list as a possibility perhaps for good reason. A rebuilt Atomic 4 engine can be had from Moyer Marine for around $6K. The effective HP of this engine is somewhere between 18 - 30 depending on many variables: prop size, pitch, number of blades, hull shape etc. The problem is that this is a gasoline engine that many perceive to be less worthy then a diesel. I have a 43 year old A4 in my boat and it is still chugging along and is quieter then any diesel it is still fueled by gas. The A4 has the power you might want but very few people would pay a premium price for a boat with an A4 in it when there are newer diesel equivalents.

Does the mechanic Will Sibley operate in your area of Middle River, MD? He is an old time, straight shooting mechanic that my friend uses for his Universal 'Atomic' diesel in the Annapolis area who comes highly regarded and reasonably priced.

In the meantime you can practice just sailing your boat and using your dinghy or tender to 'hip tow' your boat out to where there might be winds on the Bay or your river.

Best of luck with this painful decision.

 

[Steve Dion]

The problem with installing any engine different from what you have is the cost of installation plus the misc. parts that you need like prop, shaft etc.

If you can do it yourself, that makes an engine swap different. If you cannot you are still looking at probably 40 hours of labor so go figure ($85 - $110/hr labor charge). That is why a NEW engine runs about $12k.